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Menachos 24b

מנחות כ״ד ע״ב

Menachot 24b

Learn Menachos 24b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Menachos 24b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Whether an item already טמא can take on more טומאה (שבע ליה טומאה), and how the halves of a divided עשרון join for טומאה and קמיצה.

Overview

The amud has two topics, and both deal with טומאה. First the גמרא looks at רבא's question: can an item that is already טמא take on another טומאה, or is it already 'full' (שבע ליה טומאה)? אביי tries to prove from רבי יוסי's ruling about a מדרס sheet turned into a curtain that a second טומאה does take hold. רבא answers that the זב may have touched the sheet before lying on it, and a severe טומאה can always land on a light one. A second proof, from two folded sheets a זב sat on, is turned away because there both טומאות came at the same moment. So the question stays unresolved. Then רבא rules about an עשרון split in two, where one half was lost, replaced, and found again: which halves join together for טומאה, and which may be eaten after קמיצה. אביי disagrees and holds that all three halves belong to one group. רב פפא and רב יצחק בריה דרב משרשיא challenge אביי, and רב אשי defends him: the קומץ follows the כהן's intention for one full עשרון.

Opening lines

מִדְרָס וַעֲשָׂאוֹ וִילוֹן –

[A sheet that was impure with] treading-impurity, and he made it into a curtain:

טָהוֹר מִן הַמִּדְרָס,

it is pure from treading-impurity,

אֲבָל טָמֵא מַגַּע מִדְרָס.

but it is impure with contact-of-treading impurity.

אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹסֵי:

Rabbi Yosei said:

The steps (16)

  1. StatementA treading-impure sheet made into a curtain
  2. Statementרבי יוסי: the curtain is impure from the זב's touch
  3. Challengeאביי: the zav's touch works even after treading-impurity
  4. Resolutionרבא: the touch may have come before the treading
  5. RejectionTwo light impurities are different
  6. ProofA new proof from the two folded sheets
  7. RejectionSame moment versus one after the other
  8. StatementA divided tenth: which halves join for impurity
  9. StatementWhen the replacement or the first half becomes impure
  10. Statementאביי: all the pieces always join
  11. StatementThe same rule for taking the handful: from the lost or the replacement half
  12. StatementTaking the handful from the first half
  13. Statementאביי: whichever half the handful is taken from, the other two may not be eaten
  14. Challengeרב פפא: then even the half the handful came from should not be eaten
  15. Challengeרב יצחק בריה דרב משרשיא: how can the handful itself be offered?
  16. Resolutionרב אשי: the handful follows the כהן's intention, and he means a full עשרון