Menachos 24a

מנחות כ״ד ע״א

Menachot 24a

Learn Menachos 24a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Menachos 24a in Gemara Clarity

Topic

How a vessel joins (צירוף כלי) separated parts of a מנחה, for טומאה and for קמיצה

Overview

This amud deals with the rule that a כלי joins (מצרף) everything inside it for קדשים. An עשרון of flour was split into two halves and placed in one bowl without the halves touching. רב כהנא rules that a טבול יום who touches one half disqualifies both, because the משנה says the vessel is 'מצרף', not 'מחבר'. He adds two limits: a vessel only joins what needs the vessel, and only a כלי חרס passes on טומאה through its airspace. רב כהנא then asks whether this joining is strong enough, from the Torah, to let a קומץ taken from one half count for the other. Two proofs are brought, one from a משנה about mixed מנחות and one from a ברייתא on 'וְהֵרִים מִמֶּנּוּ'. Both are pushed off, because each could be about parts that still touch somewhere, so the question stays unresolved. רבי ירמיה asks whether a vessel's joining and a water connection can work together, and his question ends in תיקו. Finally, רבא asks whether an already-impure half is 'full' of טומאה (שבע לו טומאה). אביי starts to challenge that idea from a משנה about an impure sheet, and his proof continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (21)

1. QuestionTwo separate parts in one bowl: does touching one disqualify both?
2. ResponseThe vessel joins its contents even without contact
3. QuestionAnother portion placed between the two parts
4. ResponseA vessel only joins what needs the vessel
5. QuestionThe טבול יום puts his finger between the parts
6. ResponseOnly a כלי חרס works through its airspace
7. Questionרב כהנא asks: can you take the קומץ from one part for the other?
8. ResponseThey know a similar case: two מנחות that got mixed
9. ProofThe proof: the mixed part does not touch, yet the קמיצה works
10. Rejectionרבא: maybe the clumps are still connected, like a comb
11. QuestionSo what is the final ruling?
12. Proofרבא's proof from 'and he shall take up from it'
13. Rejectionאביי: 'two vessels' may mean a קפיזא carved inside a קב
14. Rejectionאביי: 'one vessel like two' may be a hen trough, so our case stays open
15. Questionרבי ירמיה: a vessel's joining combined with a water connection
16. QuestionDoes the vessel's joining reach an item outside it?
17. QuestionFollow-up: what if the טבול יום touches the outside item?
18. QuestionExplaining the two sides of the follow-up question
19. ConclusionThe question stays unresolved
20. QuestionCan an already impure half pass on impurity again?
21. Challengeאביי questions whether something can be 'full' of impurity