Gemara Clarity

Menachos 31a

מנחות ל״א ע״א

Menachot 31a

Learn Menachos 31a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Menachos 31a in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Which rulings of רבי שמעון שזורי are the הלכה: the wooden chest, wine as always תחילה, and his ברייתא about טבל mixed with חולין.

Overview

Earlier, רבי חנינא said the הלכה follows רבי שמעון שזורי, and the גמרא wants to know which case he meant. The first answer points to a משנה about how to measure the size of a wooden chest. רב נחמן בר יצחק points instead to a משנה about liquids that are always תחילה. In that משנה the גמרא fixes the wording so that רבי שמעון שזורי simply says 'wine.' Next comes a ברייתא in which רבי שמעון שזורי's טבל got mixed into חולין, and רבי טרפון told him to separate מעשר from market produce. The גמרא explains that this works because both are exempt by Torah law. A second version says he was told to take from a גוי, and each version explains why the other source would not work. Finally רב פפא rules that the הלכה follows רבי שמעון שזורי even in this ברייתא case. רבי חנינא מסורא then asks why that was not obvious, and the answer comes on the next amud.

Opening lines

אַשִּׁידָּה, דִּתְנַן:

About a chest, as we learned:

בֵּית שַׁמַּאי אוֹמְרִים נִמְדֶּדֶת מִבִּפְנִים,

Beit Shammai say it is measured from the inside,

וּבֵית הִלֵּל אוֹמְרִים מִבַּחוּץ,

and Beit Hillel say from the outside,

וּמוֹדִים אֵלּוּ וְאֵלּוּ

and both of them agree

The steps (16)

  1. ResponseFirst answer: the case of the wooden chest
  2. Statementרבי יוסי: the legs and rims are measured
  3. Statementרבי שמעון שזורי: it depends on the height of the legs
  4. ResponseSecond answer: רב נחמן בר יצחק says it is about wine
  5. ChallengeDoes the first תנא think wine is left out?
  6. ResolutionReword it: רבי שמעון שזורי says wine
  7. Statementרבי שמעון שזורי's story: טבל mixed into חולין
  8. ResponseWhy market produce works: exempt for exempt
  9. ChallengeWhy not tell him to take from a gentile?
  10. ResolutionA gentile's ownership does not remove the land's obligation
  11. StatementAnother version: he did say to take from a gentile
  12. ChallengeWhy not tell him to take from the market?
  13. ResolutionMost עמי הארץ do not tithe
  14. QuestionDoes the rule about רבי שמעון שזורי include the mixed טבל case?
  15. Responseרב פפא answers yes
  16. ChallengeWasn't this obvious?