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Menachos 58b

מנחות נ״ח ע״ב

Menachot 58b

Learn Menachos 58b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Menachos 58b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

How small a קומץ or הקטרה can be, and how many sets of lashes someone gets for burning שאור and דבש on the מזבח

Overview

This amud finishes the argument between אביי and רבא about the size of a קומץ and the smallest amount that counts as a הקטרה. אביי holds that burning less than a כזית still counts. רבא holds that a קומץ is never less than two olives and that a burning needs at least a כזית. Then the גמרא brings a second argument between them. If someone offers a mixture of שאור and דבש on the מזבח, רבא says he gets four sets of lashes: for שאור, for דבש, for mixtures of שאור, and for mixtures of דבש. אביי says there are no lashes for a לאו שבכללות, one לאו that covers many acts. The גמרא then brings two reports of what אביי means. One says he still gets one set of lashes. The other says he gets none at all, because lashes are learned from the לאו of muzzling an ox, which forbids one specific act.

Opening lines

וְיֵשׁ הַקְטָרָה פְּחוּתָה מִכְּזַיִת.

And there is a burning less than an olive-bulk.

וְרָבָא אָמַר:

And Rava said:

אֵין קוֹמֶץ פָּחוֹת מִשְּׁנֵי זֵיתִים,

There is no handful less than two olive-bulks,

וְאֵין הַקְטָרָה פְּחוּתָה מִכְּזַיִת.

and there is no burning less than an olive-bulk.

The steps (6)

  1. Statementאביי: burning less than an olive still counts
  2. Statementרבא: a handful is at least two olives, and burning needs an olive
  3. Statementרבא: four sets of lashes for offering leaven and honey
  4. Statementאביי: no lashes for a general prohibition
  5. StatementOne report: אביי agrees to at least one set of lashes
  6. StatementSecond report: no lashes at all, since the prohibition is not specific