Gemara Clarity

Menachos 58a

מנחות נ״ח ע״א

Menachot 58a

Learn Menachos 58a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Menachos 58a in Gemara Clarity

Topic

How רבי יוחנן uses ״אֹתָם״ to forbid a voluntary שתי הלחם; whether the ban on burning leftovers covers anything called a קרבן; and how much שאור the ban on burning covers.

Overview

The amud opens by asking what רבי יוחנן learns from the word ״אֹתָם״. A ברייתא shows that no one, not a יחיד and not even the ציבור, may donate a voluntary copy of the שתי הלחם. Only the required שתי הלחם (from leaven) and ביכורים (from sweet fruit) are brought. The גמרא challenges this from a ברייתא saying leaven was 'allowed' in the מקדש. רב עמרם answers that this means the loaves are brought together with the lambs, and the גמרא explains why the birds on the ביכורים baskets do not do the same for honey. Next, רמי בר חמא asks whether putting meat of a חטאת העוף on the מזבח breaks the ban on burning leftovers. רב חסדא says yes, because it is called a קרבן, and the גמרא links this to a dispute between רבי אליעזר and רבי עקיבא, with רב חסדא and רב each giving a case where they differ. Finally, a ברייתא widens the ban on burning שאור to part of it and to a mixture. אביי and רבא explain 'part of it' differently, and the root of their dispute about the size of a קומץ begins here and continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

וְרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן,

And Rabbi Yoḥanan,

הַאי ״אֹתָם״ מַאי עָבֵיד לֵיהּ?

this word 'them,' what does he do with it?

מִיבְּעֵי לֵיהּ לְכִדְתַנְיָא:

He needs it for that which is taught in a ברייתא:

יָכוֹל יְהֵא יָחִיד מִתְנַדֵּב

One might think that an individual may donate

The steps (26)

  1. QuestionWhat does רבי יוחנן learn from the word 'them'?
  2. ResponseHe needs it for a ברייתא: could an individual donate two loaves?
  3. StatementThe plural 'you shall bring' means only the community
  4. ChallengeMaybe the community may donate extra loaves
  5. Conclusion'Them' excludes everyone: only the required loaves and first fruits
  6. ChallengeChallenge: Can't the two loaves be brought as a gift?
  7. ResponseEach of leaven and honey has its own special rule
  8. StatementLeaven's special feature: it was allowed in the מקדש
  9. StatementHoney's special feature, and the ברייתא's summary
  10. ChallengeThe attack: 'allowed in the מקדש' must mean two loaves as a gift
  11. Resolutionרב עמרם: the leaven is brought together with the lambs
  12. ChallengeThen honey was also allowed, through first fruits
  13. ResolutionThe birds were only decoration
  14. QuestionPutting meat of a bird sin offering on the altar
  15. QuestionThe two sides of the question
  16. ResponseAnything called an offering is included
  17. StatementThe same question is a dispute among תנאים
  18. QuestionWhat is the practical difference between the two views?
  19. Responseרב חסדא: the meat of a bird sin offering
  20. Responseרב: the leper's log of oil
  21. StatementA ברייתא: burning part of the leaven, or leaven mixed into something else
  22. QuestionWhat does the ברייתא mean?
  23. Responseאביי: 'all of it' means a כזית, and 'part of it' means half a כזית
  24. Responseרבא reads the ברייתא as whole handful, half handful, and mixture
  25. QuestionWhat are אביי and רבא arguing about?
  26. Responseאביי holds a handful can be smaller than two olives