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Menachos 61b

מנחות ס״א ע״ב

Menachot 61b

Learn Menachos 61b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Menachos 61b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Who waves ביכורים and private שלמים: the כהן together with the owner, why the משנה cites רבי אליעזר בן יעקב, and which owners join in the waving themselves

Overview

This amud starts at the end of רבי אליעזר בן יעקב's comparison between ביכורים and שלמים. His conclusion is that both the כהן and the owner wave: the כהן puts his hands under the owner's hands. The גמרא asks why the משנה names only him, when רבי יהודה also requires waving ביכורים and learns it from 'והנחתו'. רבא answers that רבי אליעזר בן יעקב's פסוק comes first. רב נחמן בר יצחק answers that he is an especially great authority. Next, the גמרא explains the משנה about waving a private שלמים. רב יהודה says every owner's offering needs תנופה, but only a male Jewish owner joins in the waving himself. A ברייתא learns from 'בני ישראל' that גוים and women do not wave. רבי יוסי explains that logic alone would not have kept them out, because a כהן can do the waving. A second ברייתא includes גרים and freed slaves from the word 'המקריב', and proves from 'ידיו תביאינה' that this word means the owner. The amud ends where it began: the כהן's hands go under the owner's hands and they wave together.

Opening lines

מָה כָּאן כֹּהֵן –

Just as here, a priest

אַף לְהַלָּן כֹּהֵן,

so too there, a priest

וּמָה לְהַלָּן בְּעָלִים

and just as there, the owner

אַף כָּאן בְּעָלִים.

so too here, the owner.

The steps (17)

  1. StatementThe two-way comparison between ביכורים and שלמים
  2. ResolutionHow both the כהן and the owner can wave together
  3. ChallengeWhy not also mention רבי יהודה?
  4. QuestionInside the ברייתא: maybe it means real placing?
  5. ResponsePlacing is already written elsewhere, so this means waving
  6. Resolutionרבא: his פסוק comes first
  7. Resolutionרב נחמן בר יצחק: he is a great authority
  8. ChallengeThe משנה's ruling on waving שלמים seems to contradict itself
  9. ResolutionWomen's offerings are waved, but women do not do the waving
  10. StatementA ברייתא: Jewish men wave, but not גוים or women
  11. QuestionShould the placing-hands distinction apply to waving too?
  12. Responseרבי יוסי explains why logic would not separate them for waving
  13. ConclusionSo the verse is needed to leave out גוים and women
  14. StatementAnother ברייתא includes converts and freed slaves
  15. ChallengeMaybe 'the one who brings' means the כהן
  16. ResolutionThe next verse shows the owner is meant
  17. ConclusionHow the owner and the כהן wave together