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Menachos 69b

מנחות ס״ט ע״ב

Menachot 69b

Learn Menachos 69b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Menachos 69b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

A series of בעיות: swallowed palm leaves and טומאה, wheat from the clouds for the שתי הלחם, and whether original or added growth decides for the עומר and for מעשר.

Overview

This עמוד is a string of questions (בעיות). First, the גמרא finishes asking whether palm leaves that an elephant swallowed and passed count as 'digested', so that a basket made from them is like כלי גללים, which cannot become טמא. A proof from children swallowed by wolves, whose flesh was declared טהור and bones טמא, is pushed off both ways: flesh is softer than palm leaves, and bones are harder. Next, רבי זירא asks whether wheat that fell from the clouds may be used for the שתי הלחם, since the פסוק says ממושבתיכם. The גמרא shows that such a thing really happened, to עדי טייעא. Then רבי שמעון בן פזי asks about a stalk that reached a third of its growth before the עומר and was replanted after it: do we follow the original growth or the added growth? Proofs from a grafted ערלה vine and an onion in a vineyard are rejected, because they may only show that we follow the original part to be strict. That question ends in תיקו. Finally, רבה asks the same kind of question about מעשר, and the case is spelled out on the next עמוד.

Opening lines

כִּכְלֵי גְלָלִים, כִּכְלֵי אֲדָמָה,

like dung vessels, like earth vessels,

וְאֵין מְקַבְּלִין טוּמְאָה –

and they are not susceptible to ritual impurity –

דְּאָמַר מָר:

as the Master said:

כְּלֵי אֲבָנִים וּכְלֵי גְלָלִים וּכְלֵי אֲדָמָה

Stone vessels, dung vessels, and earth vessels

The steps (18)

  1. QuestionIs the swallowed material now like dung vessels?
  2. ProofProof attempt from the children swallowed by wolves
  3. RejectionFlesh is soft, so it is different
  4. ProofProof the other way from the bones
  5. RejectionBones are harder still
  6. Questionרבי זירא asks about wheat from the clouds
  7. QuestionWhich law is the question about?
  8. ResponseThe question is about the שתי הלחם
  9. QuestionThe two ways to read 'from your dwellings'
  10. QuestionCan wheat really fall from the clouds?
  11. ResponseYes: the story of עדי טייעא
  12. QuestionA stalk replanted after the עומר: original growth or added growth?
  13. ProofA try to answer from a young vine grafted onto an old one
  14. ProofSecond proof: an onion planted in a vineyard
  15. RejectionThe proofs only show strictness, and that is the real question
  16. ConclusionThe question stays unresolved
  17. Questionרבה asks how this works for tithes
  18. QuestionWhat case is רבה talking about?