Menachos 72b

מנחות ע״ב ע״ב

Menachot 72b

Learn Menachos 72b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Menachos 72b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Does reaping the עומר override שבת for רבי, and which מנחות have a קומץ removed with the leftovers going to the כהנים?

Overview

The גמרא continues asking whether reaping the עומר overrides שבת, and what that says about an עומר reaped at the wrong time. It explains that רבי אלעזר ברבי שמעון knew his father's teaching but limited it, because in the fats-and-limbs case the שחיטה had already overridden שבת. רבי, who holds that a wrongly-timed עומר is valid, must then hold that reaping the עומר does not override שבת at all. The גמרא defends this against several משניות by saying they do not follow רבי. It also reads one משנה of רבי's as talking about offering the עומר, not reaping it. A ברייתא of רבי about the מועדים seems to show that reaping does override שבת. The גמרא answers that the עומר overrides שבת for its offering, and the שתי הלחם for their baking, because רבי holds תנור מקדש. A challenge to that idea is answered by רב נחמן בר יצחק: 'holy' in רבי's ברייתא means 'fixed'. Then פרק רבי ישמעאל ends, and a new משנה lists the מנחות that have a קומץ removed. The גמרא discusses רב פפא's rule of ten and looks for the source that the כהנים eat the leftovers of barley מנחות. חזקיה's source from a פסוק is challenged at the end of the amud, and the challenge continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (37)

1. ChallengeDidn't the son know his father's teaching?
2. ResolutionThe fats-and-limbs case is different because the slaughter already overrode שבת
3. ChallengeThe same logic should apply to רבי
4. Resolutionרבי holds that reaping the עומר does not override שבת
5. ChallengeA משנה seems to say the עומר is reaped even on שבת
6. ResolutionThat משנה does not follow רבי
7. ChallengeThe Sages' opinion also assumes reaping on שבת
8. ResolutionThat clause is not like רבי
9. ChallengeThe reaper asks 'this שבת?'
10. ResolutionThis too is not like רבי
11. ChallengeA משנה that must be רבי's says it overrides שבת
12. ResolutionIt means the offering, not the reaping
13. Challengeרבי's ברייתא about the מועדים
14. StatementThe ברייתא continues: the other communal offerings
15. StatementThe ברייתא includes the עומר and the שתי הלחם
16. QuestionWhat part of these offerings overrides שבת?
17. ChallengeSo for רבי, reaping the עומר overrides שבת
18. ResolutionA new reading: the עומר for offering, the loaves for baking
19. ChallengeChallenge: the loaves become holy through the lambs' slaughter
20. StatementThe ברייתא continues: improper intent at slaughter or sprinkling
21. Statementרבי אלעזר ברבי שמעון: both steps must be proper
22. ResolutionHoly means fixed, not first made holy
23. ConclusionHadran — Closing פרק רבי ישמעאל
24. StatementList of מנחות that have a handful removed
25. StatementA כהן's sinner offering is split in two
26. Statementרב פפא: The Baked Offerings Always Come as Ten
27. QuestionWhat Is רב פפא Teaching Us?
28. ResponseIt Excludes רבי שמעון's Half-and-Half View
29. QuestionSource That the כהנים Eat the Leftovers
30. ChallengeWhy Ask? The Torah Already Says It
31. ResolutionThe Real Question Was About Barley Offerings
32. ChallengeBarley Too: A קומץ Means the Rest Goes to the כהנים
33. ResolutionThe question was only according to רבי שמעון
34. ProofThe משנה showing רבי שמעון's view
35. QuestionSo where do we learn it?
36. Responseחזקיה's source: an extra פסוק applied to barley
37. ChallengeIsn't this פסוק needed for something else?