Menachos 82b

מנחות פ״ב ע״ב

Menachot 82b

Learn Menachos 82b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Menachos 82b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Learning that פסח comes only from חולין: the debate of רבי אליעזר and רבי עקיבא, the rule that a היקש cannot be refuted, and the lessons drawn from ״זֹאת הַתּוֹרָה לָעֹלָה...״.

Overview

The משנה rules that a קרבן פסח comes only from חולין (ordinary money), not from מעשר שני money. רבי אליעזר learned this from פסח מצרים, and רבי עקיבא objected on two levels: we cannot learn the possible from the impossible, and even if we could, פסח מצרים had no blood or אימורין on a מזבח. The גמרא explains that each sage argued both on his own view and on the other's. רבי אליעזר answers from פסח מדבר on his own view, and from the פסוק ״וְעָבַדְתָּ״ on רבי עקיבא's view. רב ששת learns from this that a היקש cannot be refuted by reasoning. The study hall asks how something learned by היקש can teach by another היקש, and the answer is that all of פסח is one subject. The גמרא then asks for רבי עקיבא's own source, which is the פסוק ״זֹאת הַתּוֹרָה לָעֹלָה וְלַמִּנְחָה...״ that links all the offerings. From עולה it learns that every offering needs a knife, which is known from the עקידה. From מנחה it learns that the offerings are eaten only by male כהנים, and the testing of which offering this teaches continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (22)

1. Challengeרבי עקיבא: the later פסח is different from the פסח in מצרים
2. Resolutionרבי אליעזר: the פסוק makes the later פסח like the one in מצרים
3. ChallengeThe גמרא asks: if רבי עקיבא held his first objection, why did he drop it?
4. ChallengeAnd if he took it back, פסח מדבר disproves his second objection
5. Resolutionרבי עקיבא's second objection was said according to רבי אליעזר's view
6. ChallengeWhy didn't רבי אליעזר point to פסח מדבר?
7. Resolutionרבי אליעזר also answered on two levels
8. ChallengeWhy not refute the comparison even now?
9. ResolutionA היקש cannot be refuted by logic
10. ChallengeCan something learned by היקש teach by another היקש?
11. ResolutionAll of פסח is one subject
12. QuestionWhere does רבי עקיבא learn that פסח comes from חולין?
13. ResponseThe source: the פסוק that lists all the offerings
14. StatementFrom עולה: all offerings need a כלי
15. QuestionWhich utensil is meant?
16. RejectionIt can't be a bowl for blood
17. ResponseThe utensil is a knife
18. QuestionHow do we know an עולה needs a knife?
19. ResponseThe source is the knife אברהם used at the עקידה
20. StatementFrom מנחה: all the offerings are eaten only by male כהנים
21. QuestionWhich offering is this lesson about?
22. RejectionTesting the first option: חטאת and אשם