Menachos 83b

מנחות פ״ג ע״ב

Menachot 83b

Learn Menachos 83b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Menachos 83b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Three sources that a leftover פסח becomes a שלמים; then the new פרק on where the grain for מנחות may come from, and whether the עומר and שתי הלחם may come from old grain.

Overview

The amud opens by asking what one opinion learns from the פסוק "וזבחת פסח... צאן ובקר". The answer is רב נחמן's rule: a leftover פסח (מותר הפסח) is brought as a שלמים. The גמרא objects twice, because the same rule is also learned from אבוה דשמואל's פסוק and from "אם כבש" in a ברייתא. It answers that the three sources cover three different cases: both the day and the animal's first year have passed, only the day has passed, or neither has passed. A צריכותא shows why each case needs its own source. The פרק התודה היתה באה then ends with a הדרן. A new פרק opens with a משנה: grain for מנחות may come from anywhere and from any year's crop, except the עומר and שתי הלחם, which need new grain from ארץ ישראל. The best grain is preferred, but all of it is valid. The גמרא notes that a ברייתא disagrees and accepts old grain after the fact, defends that view against the words "ראשית" and "חדשה", and begins to define exactly what the two sides argue about, a point that continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (24)

1. QuestionWhat does the other opinion learn from this verse?
2. ResponseThe פסוק teaches that a leftover פסח is brought as a שלמים
3. ChallengeIsn't this already learned from שמואל's father's verse?
4. ChallengeIt comes from yet another place: the word 'lamb'
5. ProofThe ברייתא: 'אם כבש' brings a leftover פסח under all the laws of שלמים
6. ProofThe ברייתא ends: a goat does not need the fat tail
7. ResolutionThree sources for three different cases
8. ResolutionWhy the first case alone would not be enough
9. ConclusionWhy the second case alone would not be enough, so all three are needed
10. ConclusionHadran — Closing פרק התודה היתה באה
11. StatementGrain for offerings may come from anywhere, except the עומר and שתי הלחם
12. StatementOfferings should use the best grain, but grain from any region is valid
13. StatementOur משנה disagrees with a ברייתא that allows old grain
14. ProofThe פסוק source for an עומר from old grain
15. ProofThe פסוק source for שתי הלחם
16. ChallengeOne word cannot teach two lessons
17. ResolutionThe old-grain rule comes from 'תביאו'
18. ChallengeBut 'Bring' Is Already Needed for Another Lesson
19. ResolutionThe Plural Form Teaches Two Lessons
20. ChallengeBut the תורה Says 'First'
21. Resolution'First' Is Only the Ideal Way
22. ChallengeBut the תורה Says 'New'
23. Resolution'New' Means First of All the Meal Offerings
24. StatementLimiting the Argument to New Grain