Menachos 84b

מנחות פ״ד ע״ב

Menachot 84b

Learn Menachos 84b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Menachos 84b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Which fruits are fit for ביכורים, עולא's ruling that inferior fruit brought as ביכורים does not become holy, and the start of רבי אחא בר אבא's objection to רבה from a ברייתא about the שתי הלחם coming first

Overview

The amud opens with the rule that ביכורים are not brought from mountain dates or from valley fruit. עולא adds that if someone brought the inferior fruit anyway, it does not become holy. רבי אחא בר אבא challenges this from a long ברייתא. That ברייתא says the שתי הלחם must come before every new crop, even crops grown on a roof, in a ruin, in a flowerpot or on a ship. רבה answers that this part of the ברייתא is about מנחות, not ביכורים. רב אדא בר אהבה pushes back from the פסוק, and רב משרשיא and רב אשי each defend רבה's answer. The גמרא then ties the question to the argument between רבי יוחנן and ריש לקיש, and shows how each of them reads the word מֵאַרְצְךָ. Finally, two ברייתות disagree about reciting over fruit from a roof, a ruin, a flowerpot or a ship. According to ריש לקיש, the גמרא settles each case by splitting it into a version that counts as land and a version that does not.

Opening lines

The steps (26)

1. StatementNot mountain dates, not valley fruit
2. StatementIf brought anyway, it is not holy
3. ChallengeAn objection begins: the first of all meal offerings
4. StatementFirst of the barley meal offerings too
5. StatementBefore the wheat first fruits
6. StatementBefore the barley first fruits too
7. StatementThe שתי הלחם also comes before crops that grew by themselves
8. StatementIncluding crops grown on a roof, in a ruin, in a flowerpot or on a ship
9. StatementThe שתי הלחם also comes before נסכים and tree fruit
10. ChallengeThe ברייתא includes poor growing places, against עולא
11. ResolutionThe later part of the ברייתא is about meal offerings
12. ChallengeHow can מנחות be eaten by the whole household?
13. ResolutionThe פסוק contains two separate teachings
14. ResolutionThe whole פסוק is about offerings, and the end is about breads of a תודה
15. StatementThe same argument as רבי יוחנן and ריש לקיש
16. QuestionWhat is רבי יוחנן's reason?
17. Responseרבי אלעזר explains רבי יוחנן from the פסוק
18. QuestionWhat does ריש לקיש learn from 'your land'?
19. Responseריש לקיש uses 'land' to limit ביכורים to the seven species
20. Resolutionרבי יוחנן learns from both 'land' and 'from land'
21. Responseריש לקיש does not split 'land' from 'from land'
22. StatementTwo teachings disagree about reciting over unusual fruit
23. ResolutionRoof of a cave versus roof of a house
24. ResolutionWorked ruin versus unworked ruin
25. ResolutionPot with a hole versus pot without a hole
26. ResolutionWooden ship versus clay ship