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Menachos 88a

מנחות פ״ח ע״א

Menachot 88a

Learn Menachos 88a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

The liquid measuring vessels of the מקדש: how many there were, how they were measured, and what each one was used for

Overview

This amud is about the liquid measuring vessels in the מקדש. רבי שמעון holds there was no הין vessel, so he names a one-and-a-half-לוג vessel for the כהן גדול's חביתין as the seventh. He states the rule that each vessel measured only one amount. The גמרא then asks what practical difference comes from רבי מאיר and רבי יהודה listing the vessels in opposite orders. רבי יוחנן ties the order to whether the overflow of the vessels is holy. אביי ties it instead to the meaning of the word מלאים, "full." Next the גמרא explains that the רבנן's הין was the one משה made for the שמן המשחה, and that seven liquid measures is a fixed tradition. A new משנה then lists what each vessel measured, including the oil for מנחות, for animal offerings and for the מנורה. The גמרא opens with רבי's difficulty about why the רביעית vessel needed to be anointed, and this continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

אֶת מִי אָבִיא תַּחְתָּיו?

Which shall I bring in its place?

אֶלָּא מִדָּה יְתֵירָה

Rather, an additional measure

שֶׁל לוֹג וּמֶחֱצָה הָיְתָה שָׁם,

of a log and a half was there,

שֶׁבּוֹ הָיָה מוֹדֵד

with which he would measure

The steps (29)

  1. Statementרבי שמעון names a one-and-a-half לוג vessel as the seventh measure
  2. ChallengeThe חכמים say a חצי לוג vessel would be enough
  3. Rejectionרבי שמעון shows their logic proves too much
  4. ResolutionThe rule in the מקדש: one vessel, one measure
  5. Statementרבי אלעזר ברבי צדוק: the הין had marks
  6. QuestionWhat is the real difference between the two lists?
  7. ResponseThey argue about the overflow of the measuring vessels
  8. ResponseCounting upward: the overflow is holy
  9. ResponseCounting downward: the overflow is not holy
  10. Responseאביי: the argument is about the word "full"
  11. ResponseBig-to-small means exactly full
  12. ResponseSmall-to-big means at least full
  13. Challengeרבי שמעון's point that there was no הין vessel makes sense
  14. ResolutionThe רבנן: משה made a הין for the anointing oil
  15. ConclusionThe root of the argument: was the הין put away or kept?
  16. ChallengeWhy must רבי שמעון replace the missing הין?
  17. ResolutionThere is a tradition of seven liquid measures
  18. Statementרבי אלעזר ברבי צדוק: the הין had markings
  19. ChallengeDoesn't he accept the seven measures?
  20. ResolutionFirst answer: he does not accept the tradition
  21. ResolutionSecond answer: seven ways of measuring
  22. StatementNew משנה: what the רביעית was used for
  23. StatementWhat the חצי לוג was used for
  24. StatementThe לוג vessel measured oil for all מנחות
  25. StatementA מנחה of sixty עשרונים gets sixty לוג of oil
  26. Statementרבי אליעזר בן יעקב: every מנחה gets just one לוג
  27. StatementThe oil amounts for a bull, a ram, and a lamb
  28. StatementThree and a half לוגים of oil for the מנורה
  29. Challengeרבי asks why the רביעית vessel was anointed