Nedarim 54b

נדרים נ״ד ע״ב

Learn Nedarim 54b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

How far a נדר against 'meat' reaches: the agent-consulting test, the dispute between the תנא קמא and רבן שמעון בן גמליאל, and why birds but not fish are included

Overview

The amud opens by finishing אביי's point that even רבי עקיבא agrees an agent must consult before buying a substitute, and רבא approves it. The גמרא then asks which תנא disagrees with רבי עקיבא and answers: רבן שמעון בן גמליאל. A ברייתא shows the תנא קמא forbidding head, feet, organs and birds to someone who vowed off meat, while רבן שמעון בן גמליאל permits all of them. רבן שמעון בן גמליאל also calls eaters of innards 'not a person,' and the גמרא explains this refers to buying them. The גמרא then challenges the תנא קמא: if birds are forbidden because an agent would ask about them, fish should be forbidden too. אביי answers that the person had let blood, so he can't eat fish, while birds are still possible if boiled well. אביי also gives a second case, a person with sore eyes, and explains that שמואל's saying that fish heals the eyes applies only at the end of the illness.

Opening lines

The steps (15)

1. StatementEven רבי עקיבא agrees the agent must ask first
2. Conclusionרבא approves אביי's teaching
3. QuestionWhich תנא argues with רבי עקיבא?
4. Responseרבן שמעון בן גמליאל: the first opinion in the ברייתא
5. Statementרבן שמעון בן גמליאל permits organs and birds
6. StatementExplaining 'one who eats them is not a person'
7. ChallengeWhy does the תנא קמא forbid bird meat?
8. ChallengeThen fish should be forbidden too
9. Resolutionאביי: The person had let blood
10. ChallengeSomeone who let blood can't eat birds either
11. ProofTwo ברייתות: birds are bad around bloodletting
12. ResolutionBirds can be eaten if boiled well
13. Resolutionאביי: The person had sore eyes
14. ChallengeBut שמואל says fish heals the eyes
15. Resolutionשמואל means the last stage of the illness