Nedarim 85b

נדרים פ״ה ע״ב

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Topic

Two rulings of שמואל seem to contradict each other on whether a person can forbid or consecrate something that does not exist yet (דבר שלא בא לעולם). רב יוסף resolves this by showing that קונמות work differently from הקדש.

Overview

The גמרא finishes quoting a ruling of שמואל about a man who consecrates his wife's future earnings. There שמואל follows רבי יוחנן הסנדלר, which suggests that a person cannot consecrate something that does not exist yet (דבר שלא בא לעולם). This seems to clash with שמואל's ruling in our משנה that the הלכה follows רבי יוחנן בן נורי. The גמרא first suggests that שמואל only meant the point about the surplus (העדפה). It rejects this because שמואל would have said that more clearly. רב יוסף then answers that קונמות are different from הקדש, since a נדר can even forbid another person's produce to oneself. אביי rejects this, because in our משנה the wife forbids her future earnings to someone else, her husband. רב הונא בריה דרב יהושע instead explains that she vowed on her hands, which already exist. The גמרא objects that her hands are pledged to her husband, answers that the vow starts only after divorce, and then asks how a vow can take effect at a later time like that, a question that continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (9)

1. Challengeשמואל's ruling on consecrating a wife's future earnings
2. ResolutionSuggesting שמואל only meant the surplus
3. Rejectionשמואל would have said so clearly
4. Resolutionרב יוסף: vows are different from consecration
5. Rejectionאביי rejects רב יוסף's comparison
6. Resolutionרב הונא בריה דרב יהושע: she vowed on her hands
7. ChallengeHer hands are pledged to her husband
8. ResolutionShe said it takes effect once she is divorced
9. ChallengeHow can a vow set for the future work now