Gemara Clarity

Nedarim 85a

נדרים פ״ה ע״א

Learn Nedarim 85a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Nedarim 85a in Gemara Clarity

Topic

The stolen טבל and the תרומה case, then a new משנה on a wife's vow not to work, with שמואל's ruling and the question of דבר שלא בא לעולם.

Overview

The amud continues a question about the משנה: may כהנים take תרומה from a man who forbade all כהנים to benefit from him? The גמרא first tries to tie the two halves of the משנה to a ברייתא about a thief who stole טבל. In that ברייתא, רבי says the thief pays for everything and רבי יוסי בר רבי יהודה says he pays only for the חולין. The גמרא suggests they argue about whether טובת הנאה counts as money. It then concludes that both opinions are really a קנס: רבי fines the thief, and רבי יוסי בר רבי יהודה fines the owner for delaying the separation of his טבל. רבא gives a different answer: תרומה is special, because once it is forbidden to all כהנים it is worthless. A new משנה follows, about a wife who vows not to work for relatives or for her husband, with the opinions of רבי עקיבא and רבי יוחנן בן נורי. שמואל rules like רבי יוחנן בן נורי. The גמרא asks whether this means a person can make holy something that does not exist yet, and it begins a contradiction from a משנה in כתובות that continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

דְּרַבִּי סָבַר:

That Rabbi holds:

טוֹבַת הֲנָאָה מָמוֹן,

the benefit of discretion is money,

וְרַבִּי יוֹסֵי בַּר רַבִּי יְהוּדָה סָבַר:

and Rabbi Yosei, son of Rabbi Yehuda, holds:

טוֹבַת הֲנָאָה אֵינָהּ מָמוֹן?

the benefit of discretion is not money?

The steps (11)

  1. QuestionIs the dispute about whether the owner's choice is worth money?
  2. RejectionEveryone agrees the owner's choice is not money
  3. ChallengeThen why should separation matter?
  4. ResolutionBoth opinions are penalties: one on the thief, one on the owner
  5. Resolutionרבא: תרומה Is Different Because It Becomes Worthless
  6. StatementA Wife's Vow Not to Work for Relatives or for Her Husband
  7. Statementרבי עקיבא: Cancel It in Case She Does Extra Work
  8. Statementרבי יוחנן בן נורי: Cancel It in Case He Divorces Her
  9. Statementשמואל rules like רבי יוחנן בן נורי
  10. QuestionDoes שמואל hold one can make holy something not yet existing?
  11. ChallengeContradiction from consecrating a wife's earnings