Gemara Clarity

Niddah 23b

נדה כ״ג ע״ב

Learn Niddah 23b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Niddah 23b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

When a miscarried fetus counts as a human birth: animal shapes, the human face, and defects

Overview

The גמרא first tries to prove from a משנה in בכורות that an animal-shaped fetus born to a woman cannot survive. רבא rejects the proof, because firstborn status for inheritance follows its own פסוק, ראשית אונו: the בכור must be a child the father would mourn. Next, רב אדא בר אהבה asks אביי the reverse case according to רבי מאיר. If a human-shaped fetus is found inside a slaughtered animal, may it be eaten? A proof from רבי יוחנן's pigeon case is pushed aside, since a human foot is at least like a hoof. The גמרא then returns to the משנה's argument over how much human form a miscarried fetus needs for טומאת לידה. רב says the face decides. There are two versions of what רבי מאיר and חכמים hold, and רבי יוחנן (the whole face) and חסא (half the face) each follow one of them. אביי answers a ברייתא that seems to say one feature is enough. רבא then rules on a fetus with one eye or one thigh and on a sealed וושט. A ברייתא defines a גוף אטום, and the question of how much must be missing continues onto the next amud.

Opening lines

אַף אֲנַן נָמֵי תְּנֵינָא:

We, too, have learned in a משנה:

הַמַּפֶּלֶת כְּמִין בְּהֵמָה חַיָּה וְעוֹף —

A woman who miscarries something like a domestic animal, a wild animal, or a bird —

וָלָד מְעַלְּיָא הוּא, דִּבְרֵי רַבִּי מֵאִיר.

it is a full-fledged offspring; these are the words of רבי מאיר.

וַחֲכָמִים אוֹמְרִים:

And the חכמים say:

The steps (22)

  1. ProofA משנה about miscarriages and firstborn status
  2. ProofWhy the משנה shows the fetus cannot survive
  3. Rejectionרבא rejects the proof using 'ראשית אונו'
  4. QuestionThe reverse case: a human-shaped fetus inside an animal
  5. QuestionWhat difference the question makes: eating it
  6. ProofTrying to answer from רבי יוחנן's pigeon case
  7. RejectionA pigeon has no hoof, but a human has something like one
  8. Statementרב: what everyone agrees about face and body
  9. StatementThe real argument: a human face with one animal eye
  10. ChallengeThe רבנן cite a ברייתא with the opposite wording
  11. ResolutionIf the ברייתא teaches it, then it teaches it
  12. Statementרבי יוחנן: the whole face must look human
  13. Statementחסא: one side of the face is enough
  14. ResolutionThe two lists match the two versions
  15. ChallengeA ברייתא suggests even one feature is enough
  16. Resolutionאביי's first answer: the ברייתא means every feature is required
  17. Resolutionאביי's second answer: 'one' means one of each pair
  18. StatementA fetus with one eye or one thigh: side versus middle
  19. StatementA fetus whose וושט is punctured versus sealed
  20. StatementA ברייתא: miscarrying a sealed body brings no טומאת לידה
  21. Responseרבי defines a sealed body
  22. QuestionHow much must be removed to cause death