Gemara Clarity

Niddah 25a

נדה כ״ה ע״א

Learn Niddah 25a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Niddah 25a in Gemara Clarity

Topic

A woman who miscarries a שפיר: when does it count as a birth, the argument about cloudy and clear fluid, and the signs of a formed embryo.

Overview

The amud opens by finishing an אגדה about how tall certain people were. Then students ask רבי about a woman who miscarries a שפיר full of flesh. רבי ישמעאל בן רבי יוסי quotes his father that she is טמאה לידה, but רבי does not accept it as הלכה, because it may follow רבי יהושע's lone view. That view comes from a ברייתא: רבי יהושע calls even an unformed שפיר a baby, and the חכמים disagree. ריש לקיש, quoting רבי אושעיא, says they argue only about cloudy fluid, while רבי יהושע בן לוי says they argue about clear fluid. The גמרא proves the clear-fluid reading from the פסוק about garments of skin. When רבא challenges רב נחמן, who agrees with רבי אושעיא, the גמרא answers that רבי יהושע is only in doubt and the פסוק is just an אסמכתא. רב rules the woman need not worry in either case, and שמואל says she must, which fits a story from נהרדעא. Finally a ברייתא describes what a formed שפיר looks like and begins to say it is not checked in water, a point that continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

פְּרַשְׁתְּבִינָא דְּפוּמְבְּדִיתָא

The governor of Pumbedita

קָאֵי לֵיהּ לְאַדָּא דַּיָּילָא

would stand next to Adda the attendant

עַד פַּלְגֵיהּ,

reaching up to half of him,

וְכוּלֵּי עָלְמָא קָאֵי

and everyone else in the world would stand

The steps (33)

  1. StatementHow tall the governor of פומבדיתא and אדא the attendant were
  2. QuestionStudents ask רבי about a sac full of flesh
  3. Responseרבי ישמעאל quotes his father's ruling
  4. Rejectionרבי starts explaining why he will not fully accept it
  5. Rejectionרבי explains why he would not accept רבי יוסי's ruling
  6. ProofThe ברייתא where רבי יהושע argues with the חכמים
  7. Statementריש לקיש: the dispute is only about cloudy fluid
  8. Statementרבי יהושע בן לוי: the dispute is about clear fluid
  9. QuestionWhat does רבי יהושע בן לוי hold about cloudy fluid?
  10. ConclusionThe question stays unresolved
  11. ChallengeA challenge from the verse about garments of skin
  12. ProofSo it all depends on the skin
  13. ChallengeWhy would a verse be needed for cloudy fluid?
  14. ConclusionConclusion: the argument is about clear fluid
  15. StatementAnother teacher agrees with רבי אושעיא
  16. Challengeרבא quotes a משנה about signs of a baby for firstborn law
  17. ProofThe difference between woman and animal fits the clear-fluid view
  18. ChallengeIf the argument is about cloudy fluid, why would woman and animal differ?
  19. Resolutionרבי יהושע is unsure, so he goes strict each time
  20. ResolutionHow the doubt plays out for money, prohibitions and impurity
  21. ChallengeHow can he be unsure if he cites a פסוק?
  22. ResolutionThe law is מדרבנן and the פסוק is only a support
  23. Questionרב חנינא asks רב which of four views he follows
  24. Responseרב: in both cases she does not worry
  25. Statementשמואל: in both cases she must worry
  26. Proofשמואל's view fits the story from נהרדעא
  27. QuestionWhat counts as a sac with a formed shape?
  28. Responseאבא שאול: it starts with the head and two eyes
  29. Statementרבי חייא: the eyes are apart, and the nostrils look like drops too
  30. StatementMore signs of a formed embryo: mouth, body size, and female sign
  31. StatementThe embryo has no shaped arms or legs yet
  32. ProofA verse in איוב describes this early stage
  33. StatementThe embryo is not checked in water