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Niddah 42a

נדה מ״ב ע״א

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Topic

A woman who discharges שכבת זרע (רואה or נוגעת?), and impurity from blood still inside the body

Overview

This amud first finishes resolving a contradiction between רבא and רבי שמעון about a woman who discharges שכבת זרע after immersing. The גמרא rejects the idea that רבא was only worried some remained, because his wording is too certain. Instead it says both speak of a woman immersed in bed. רבא means one who turns over, so she will surely discharge, and רבי שמעון means one who lies still. רבא was really explaining the פסוק 'bathe in water and be impure until evening.' Next, רב שמואל בר ביסנא asks whether such a woman is a רואה (her own body produced the impurity) or a נוגעת (she only touched it). After two ways of explaining his question, אביי, רבא and רב יוסף all answer 'רואה.' אביי explains that רבי שמעון's 'דיה כבועלה' covers only impurity while the seed is still inside. A ברייתא then teaches that a נדה, זבה, שומרת יום כנגד יום and יולדת are impure even while the blood is still inside. The גמרא explains why יולדת is listed with רב's ruling about blood uprooted while she goes down to or comes up from the מקוה. רבי ירמיה objects that this blood is טומאה בלועה. רבי אבין compares it to נבלת עוף טהור in the throat, and רבי ירמיה asks whether the cases are really alike.

Opening lines

וְכִי תֵּימָא דִּילְמָא אִשְׁתְּיַיר —

And if you would say: perhaps some remained,

אִי הָכִי,

if so,

״חָיְישִׁינַן שְׁמָא נִשְׁתַּיֵּיר״ מִבְּעֵי לֵיהּ!

he should have said: 'We are concerned that perhaps some remained'!

אֶלָּא: לְרָבָא נָמֵי,

Rather, according to Rava too,

The steps (22)

  1. RejectionRejecting the idea that רבא only worried some semen remained
  2. ResolutionBoth cases are about a woman immersed in bed: turning over versus lying still
  3. Resolutionרבא was explaining the פסוק of 'bathe in water and be impure until evening'
  4. QuestionIs a woman who discharges semen a 'רואה' or a 'נוגעת'?
  5. QuestionThree practical differences of the question
  6. ChallengeEither way, the question seems already answered
  7. ResolutionHe was asking only according to רבי שמעון
  8. ResolutionWhich part of the question was really being asked
  9. QuestionThe two sides of the question according to רבי שמעון
  10. ResolutionSecond version: he never heard the ברייתא, and his reason came from סיני
  11. QuestionOther side: סיני was a one-time rule
  12. ResponseThree sages answer: she counts as a רואה
  13. ChallengeYou all spit the same saliva
  14. Resolutionאביי explains: 'like the man' only covers inside versus outside
  15. Statementברייתא: women impure from blood still inside
  16. ChallengeWhy list יולדת separately?
  17. ResolutionThe case is a woman going to immerse
  18. Statementרב's ruling on blood uprooted during immersion
  19. ChallengeWhy is swallowed blood impure?
  20. Responseרבי זירא sends him to רבי אבין
  21. ResolutionCompared to נבלת עוף טהור
  22. ChallengeAre the two cases really alike?