Niddah 8a

נדה ח׳ ע״א

Learn Niddah 8a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

Testing the claim of שמואל and רבי אלעזר that the הלכה follows רבי אליעזר in only four cases: what the count covers, and which cases do not count.

Overview

שמואל said the הלכה follows רבי אליעזר in only four cases. The גמרא challenges this from the מיאון case in יבמות, and answers that the four are only in סדר טהרות. It supports this with a case about חלה, then asks why that case is a better proof. The answer it settles on: in the מיאון case, רבי יהודה בן בבא agrees with רבי אליעזר, as a ברייתא's careful plural 'minor girls' shows. Next, רבי אלעזר makes the same 'four cases' statement. Here the סדר טהרות answer fails: רבי זירא's remark about balsam shows that רבי אלעזר's four cover the whole משנה. So the מיאון case is again explained away because רבי יהודה בן בבא agrees with רבי אליעזר. Finally, רבי אלעזר's ruling about saying הבדלה in הודאה does not count either, because רבי אליעזר was repeating רבי חנינא בן גמליאל.

Opening lines

The steps (24)

1. ChallengeThe challenge from the minor's refusal case ends
2. ResolutionThe four cases are only within סדר טהרות
3. ProofSupport from the case of חלה and the basket
4. ChallengeWhy is the חלה case a better proof than the יבמות case?
5. ResolutionIn the יבמות case, רבי אלעזר agrees with רבי אליעזר
6. ChallengeDo רבי אלעזר and רבי אליעזר really say the same thing?
7. ResolutionNew answer: רבי יהודה בן בבא agrees with רבי אליעזר
8. ProofThe five testimonies of רבי יהודה בן בבא
9. ProofReading 'minor girls' as the two cases of רבי אלעזר and רבי אליעזר
10. Rejection'Minor girls' may just mean minor girls in general
11. ChallengeThen why does the list say 'a woman' and not 'women'?
12. ConclusionThe plural is precise, so רבי יהודה בן בבא agrees with רבי אליעזר
13. Statementרבי אלעזר: the הלכה follows רבי אליעזר in four cases
14. ChallengeIsn't the מיאון ruling a fifth case?
15. ResolutionSuggestion: the four are only in סדר טהרות
16. RejectionAre there really more? The balsam משנה
17. Proofרבי זירא: between father and son, balsam is permitted
18. RejectionIf it were only about טהרות, רבי פדת would have said so
19. ChallengeThe minor girl case is a problem again
20. ResolutionThe תנא רבי אלעזר agrees in the minor girl case
21. ChallengeBut רבי אלעזר's opinion is different from רבי אליעזר's
22. Resolutionרבי יהודה בן בבא agrees instead
23. ChallengeAnother case: where to say הבדלה
24. ResolutionThe הבדלה ruling was said in the name of רבי חנינא בן גמליאל