Pesachim 27a

פסחים כ״ז ע״א

Learn Pesachim 27a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Pesachim 27a in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Which תנא holds זה וזה גורם אסור; רבי אליעזר's view; אביי on ovens, pots and pottery; שמואל's reversed version; and bread baked over coals of forbidden wood.

Overview

Something can come about through two causes at once, one forbidden and one permitted. This is called זה וזה גורם. The גמרא is searching for a תנא who agrees with רבי that such a result is forbidden, as in bread baked in an oven heated with forbidden fuel. A first proof from רבי אליעזר, about forbidden and permitted starter in dough, is rejected, because he may simply follow the last ingredient. A second proof comes from the משנה about אשירה wood. רבי אליעזר argues only about a mixture of the bread, and a ברייתא confirms that he was strict in all Torah prohibitions. אביי then explains the dispute between רבי and חכמים: pottery fired with forbidden wood is forbidden by everyone, while an oven or pot depends on the זה וזה גורם question. שמואל teaches the ברייתא with the names reversed, and the גמרא explains why. Finally, bread cooked on coals is permitted, two אמוראים argue about glowing coals, and רב פפא says רבי forbids the bread when a flame burns directly opposite it.

Opening lines

The steps (20)

1. ProofEnd of the sourdough source and אביי's explanation of רבי אליעזר
2. Rejectionרבי אליעזר's reason may simply be that the last ingredient decides
3. ProofA new source: רבי אליעזר and wood from an אשירה
4. ProofBread baked with אשירה wood, and mixtures of that bread
5. Proofרבי אליעזר's dispute only concerns the mixture
6. RejectionMaybe רבי אליעזר is strict only about עבודה זרה
7. ResolutionThen who else could the ברייתא follow?
8. ProofAn explicit ברייתא: רבי אליעזר forbade in all prohibitions
9. Statementאביי: if רבי holds that two causes forbid, he agrees with רבי אליעזר
10. StatementIf two causes are permitted, רבי forbids because the wood's benefit is in the bread
11. StatementThe real argument is about an oven and a pot
12. StatementSecond version: the pot is forbidden even for the lenient view
13. Statementשמואל's ruling on an oven heated with forbidden fuel
14. ChallengeThe ברייתא teaches the opposite
15. Resolutionשמואל has a different version of the ברייתא
16. Resolutionשמואל deliberately reversed the names to guide the ruling
17. StatementBread cooked on the coals is permitted by everyone
18. StatementDispute over dim coals versus glowing coals
19. ChallengeWhen does רבי's reason ever apply?
20. Resolutionרב פפא: a flame burning opposite the bread