Pesachim 77b

פסחים ע״ז ע״ב

Learn Pesachim 77b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Pesachim 77b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

The disagreement of רבי אליעזר and רבי יהושע on whether blood needs meat, and whether our משנה of five public offerings brought in טומאה can follow רבי יהושע

Overview

Background: רבי יהושע holds that a קרבן needs both its blood and its meat. רבי אליעזר holds that the blood is thrown even when there is no meat. First the גמרא explains how each of them reads the פסוק 'ועשית עלתיך הבשר והדם... ודם זבחיך ישפך... והבשר תאכל'. It also explains where each one learns that the meat may not be eaten until the blood is thrown: רבי אליעזר from the פסוק, and רבי יהושע from a קל וחומר. Then the גמרא asks whether our משנה can follow רבי יהושע. That משנה says five public offerings, such as the עומר and the שתי הלחם, may be brought in טומאה. One answer is that for רבי יהושע the ציץ fixes the parts burned on the מזבח and that his rule does not apply to מנחות. A ברייתא of רבי יוסי knocks this down. A second answer is that the ציץ also fixes the eaten parts. A משנה about מנחות and a ברייתא of רבי יהושע knock this down too. Finally the גמרא suggests that רבי יהושע is strict only לכתחילה, and it proves he makes that distinction. But the wording פסולה and חמשה דברים באין shows that this distinction cannot explain our משנה.

Opening lines

The steps (31)

1. QuestionWhy does רבי יהושע need two verses?
2. ResponseOne verse for עולה, one for שלמים
3. StatementWhy a verse about עולה alone would not be enough
4. ConclusionWhy a verse about שלמים alone would not be enough
5. ChallengeChallenge: רבי אליעזר also has 'והבשר תאכל'
6. Resolutionרבי אליעזר: the phrase teaches that meat waits for the blood
7. ChallengeThen where is רבי אליעזר's own source?
8. ResolutionThe word order of the verse teaches two rules
9. QuestionWhere does רבי יהושע learn that meat waits for the blood?
10. Responseרבי יהושע learns it from a קל וחומר
11. ResolutionWhy רבי אליעזר needs a verse for something logic teaches
12. Resolutionרבי יהושע: expound the verse for something new
13. ChallengeDoes our משנה contradict רבי יהושע?
14. ResolutionThe frontplate fixes the impurity of the parts burned on the altar
15. ChallengeWhat about the עומר and the שתי הלחם, which have no burned parts?
16. Resolutionרבי יהושע's rule applies only to animal offerings
17. ChallengeA משנה applies רבי יהושע's rule to meal-offerings
18. ResolutionThat תנא follows רבי יהושע's principle but extends it
19. ChallengeWho is this stricter Tanna?
20. Challengeרבי יוסי: Both views apply to animal offerings and to meal offerings
21. Proofרבי יוסי explains each opinion
22. ResolutionThe frontplate atones even for the eaten portions
23. ChallengeThen why is the meal offering disqualified?
24. ResolutionOnly when lost or burned
25. ChallengeThe impure case in the משנה must belong to רבי יהושע
26. ChallengeA ברייתא shows רבי יהושע holds the frontplate does not cover the parts
27. Resolutionרבי יהושע is strict only before the fact
28. QuestionWhere do we see that רבי יהושע makes this distinction?
29. ProofA ברייתא: רבי יהושע agrees that if the blood was sprinkled, it is accepted
30. RejectionFirst reason: the word 'disqualified' means invalid even after the fact
31. RejectionSecond reason: 'five items are brought' describes doing it from the start