Sanhedrin 70a

סנהדרין ע׳ ע״א

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Topic

בן סורר ומורה: the amounts and kinds of meat and wine that make him liable, followed by aggadic teachings on the dangers of wine and the story of נח

Overview

The amud opens by finishing the previous discussion: a daughter cannot become a בן סורר ומורה, because the Torah says "בן". A new משנה then sets how much meat and wine he must eat. It rules out eating that is part of a מצוה or an עבירה, and it requires real meat and wine, based on "זולל וסבא". The גמרא works out that a תרטימר is half a מנה. רב הונא adds that the meat and wine must be bought cheaply and be half-cooked and half-mixed. Salted meat and wine fresh from the press do not count. Their time limits differ from the limits for ערב תשעה באב, because the reason behind each law is different. The גמרא then turns to teachings about wine: it comforts mourners, it can raise a person up or ruin him, and it brought "woe" in the story of נח. It discusses what חם did to נח and notes that נח should have learned from אדם הראשון, whose tree some say was a grapevine. רבי מאיר's ברייתא on this continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (36)

1. ConclusionOnly a son, not a daughter, by Torah decree
2. StatementHow much meat and wine makes him liable
3. StatementEating that does not count
4. StatementHe must eat real meat and drink real wine
5. ProofA hint from משלי that זולל and סובא mean meat and wine
6. StatementHow much is a תרטימר?
7. StatementHe must buy the meat and wine cheaply
8. StatementRaw meat and undiluted wine
9. ChallengeBut רבה and רב יוסף say raw meat does not count
10. Resolutionרבינא: half-cooked meat and half-mixed wine
11. StatementSalted meat and fresh wine don't count
12. ProofThe same idea on ערב תשעה באב
13. QuestionHow long must meat be salted?
14. ResponseMeat stays regular meat as long as it is like שלמים
15. QuestionHow new is 'wine from the press'?
16. ResponseAs long as the wine is still fermenting
17. ProofA ברייתא shows that fermenting lasts three days
18. QuestionWhat about בן סורר ומורה?
19. ResponseDifferent reasons lead to different measures
20. StatementWine was created to comfort mourners and reward the wicked
21. Statementרבי יצחק: Wine reddens the faces of the wicked now and shames them later
22. Statementרבא: Wine ends in bloodshed
23. Statementרב כהנא: Wine can make a person a leader or a pauper
24. Statementרבא: Wine can gladden a person or drive him crazy
25. Proofרבא's saying shows that wine in the right measure makes a person wise
26. Questionרבי חנינא asks about the פסוק listing the troubles of drinkers
27. Responseרב דימי: The פסוק works read forward and backward
28. StatementThirteen words with a ו׳ in the story of נח's wine
29. StatementWhat did חם do to נח?
30. ProofWhy the castration opinion makes sense: a fourth son for a fourth son
31. ProofWhy the other opinion makes sense: 'and he saw' in two places
32. ChallengeWhy curse the fourth son?
33. ResolutionBoth things happened
34. Statementה׳ criticizes נח for planting a vineyard
35. StatementThis follows the view that the forbidden tree was a grapevine
36. Proofרבי מאיר says the tree was a grapevine