Succah 18b

סוכה י״ח ע״ב

Sukkah 18b

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Topic

Whether the principle of פי תקרה יורד וסותם (the roof's edge 'descends and seals' as a wall) applies to a סוכה built on top of an אכסדרה (portico) without side posts, and whether the מחלוקת between אביי and רבא matches the מחלוקת of רב and שמואל.

Overview

This amud picks up in the middle of אביי's ruling about a סוכה built on a portico that has no side posts. אביי says it is כשרה because of פי תקרה יורד וסותם: the edge of the roof counts as a wall that 'comes down and closes' the open side. רבא says it is פסולה because we do not use that idea. רבא challenges אביי: by your logic, even a סוכה with its middle wall removed, leaving two facing walls, should be כשרה. אביי concedes that one case, because it is like a מבוי המפולש, a passage open at both ends. The גמרא then suggests that אביי and רבא are simply repeating the older מחלוקת of רב and שמואל. That dispute is about carrying on שבת in a portico standing in a field. רב allows carrying throughout the portico because he applies פי תקרה. שמואל allows carrying only within four אמות because he does not. The גמרא rejects the comparison: according to שמואל, everyone would agree.

Opening lines

The steps (7)

1. Statementאביי's reasoning: the roof's edge acts as a wall
2. Statementרבא rules the סוכה unfit
3. Challengeרבא challenges אביי: then even a סוכה missing its middle wall should be valid
4. Resolutionאביי concedes that case: it is like an open-ended alley
5. QuestionIs this the same dispute as רב and שמואל?
6. StatementThe רב and שמואל dispute about a portico in a field
7. RejectionRejection: according to שמואל, אביי and רבא would agree