Succah 19b

סוכה י״ט ע״ב

Sukkah 19b

Learn Succah 19b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

A sloped סוכה with no separate roof (and רב יוסף's bridal canopy), and when a reed mat may be used as סכך

Overview

This amud opens by finishing an earlier discussion: טיט הנרוק proves that something unfit by itself can still help something else become fit. Then a new משנה starts. A סוכה shaped like a sloped hut (צריף), or leaned against a wall, has no separate roof. רבי אליעזר says it is פסול, and the חכמים say it is כשר, because שיפועי אהלים כאהלים. אביי finds רב יוסף sleeping under a sloped bridal canopy in the סוכה and challenges him for following רבי אליעזר. רב יוסף answers that a ברייתא reverses the names, and that the משנה's version is only רבי נתן's. Another משנה teaches that a reed mat made for lying on is a כלי and cannot be סכך, while one made for roofing is valid. The גמרא finds a contradiction about a mat made with no stated purpose. רבא concludes that everyone agrees an unlabeled large mat is for roofing. For a small mat, the תנא קמא presumes it is for lying, and רבי אליעזר presumes it is for roofing.

Opening lines

The steps (20)

1. ProofLiquid mortar proves that something unfit can still help make something else fit
2. StatementA sloped hut or a סוכה leaned against a wall: the disagreement
3. StatementWhen רבי אליעזר agrees the sloped סוכה is valid
4. QuestionWhat is the reason of the חכמים?
5. ResponseA sloping tent counts as a tent
6. Challengeאביי challenges רב יוסף for sleeping under a canopy in the סוכה
7. Resolutionרב יוסף: a ברייתא reverses the opinions
8. Challengeאביי: Why follow a ברייתא over the משנה?
9. Resolutionרב יוסף: Our משנה is only an individual's version
10. ProofProof: רבי נתן is the one who reports the משנה's version
11. StatementNew משנה: A large reed mat depends on what it was made for
12. Statementרבי אליעזר: Small or large, only the purpose matters
13. ChallengeThe first half of the משנה implies an unlabeled mat is for roofing
14. ChallengeThe second half of the משנה implies an unlabeled mat is for lying
15. ResolutionLarge mat versus small mat
16. ChallengeThe answer works for the חכמים but not for רבי אליעזר
17. Challengeרבי אליעזר's words imply an unlabeled mat is for roofing
18. Challengeרבי אליעזר's second clause points the other way
19. Resolutionרבא's new answer: everyone agrees about a large mat
20. ResolutionSpelling out the dispute over a small mat