Succah 21b

סוכה כ״א ע״ב

Sukkah 21b

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Topic

When an ox or a bed counts as an אהל, רבי יהודה and רבי שמעון on sleeping under a bed in the סוכה, and a סוכה supported by a bed.

Overview

This amud opens with the end of רבא's worry that a child could become טמא from a קבר התהום. A ברייתא supports him: according to רבי יהודה, the children who drew water for the פרה אדומה rode directly on wide-bellied oxen, whose bodies served as an אהל. The גמרא asks how this fits with רבי יהודה sleeping under a bed in the סוכה, which shows he does not treat a bed as an אהל. Several answers are tried and rejected. רבא finally explains that an ox's body is made by nature to cover its insides. A second answer says that for רבי יהודה a temporary אהל like a bed cannot cancel the permanent סוכה, and רבי שמעון disagrees on exactly this point. The גמרא then explains רבי שמעון's lesson from the story of טבי, and notes that even the casual talk of תלמידי חכמים must be studied. A new משנה follows about a סוכה that rests on the legs of a bed, which רבי יהודה invalidates if it cannot stand on its own. Two אמוראים give different reasons for his ruling, and the גמרא shows the case where those reasons differ. אביי adds that if the roofing rests on poles attached to the bed, everyone agrees the סוכה is כשרה.

Opening lines

The steps (23)

1. StatementEnd of רבא's statement about the danger of קבר התהום
2. ProofA ברייתא supports רבא: no doors, the children rode right on the oxen
3. ChallengeChallenge from רבי יהודה sleeping under a bed
4. ResolutionA bed is different: it is made for use on top
5. ChallengeBut oxen are also used on top
6. Resolutionרבי אלעזר: oxen shelter shepherds from sun and rain
7. ChallengeBut a bed also protects the shoes underneath
8. Resolutionרבא: An ox's body is built to shelter
9. ResolutionA temporary covering cannot cancel a permanent סוכה
10. ChallengeBut רבי שמעון also requires a permanent סוכה
11. ResolutionYes, that is exactly their disagreement
12. StatementQuoting the משנה: the incident with טבי
13. StatementTwo lessons from רבן גמליאל's words
14. ChallengeWhy say 'conversation' instead of 'words'?
15. ResolutionEven the casual talk of scholars must be studied
16. StatementNew משנה: a סוכה resting on bed legs
17. QuestionWhat is רבי יהודה's reason?
18. ResponseTwo explanations: not permanent, or held up by something that can become טמא
19. QuestionWhat is the practical difference between the two reasons?
20. ResponseThe case of iron skewers
21. Statementאביי limits the dispute to roofing that leans on the bed
22. QuestionWhy is the roofing on top of the bed fit?
23. ResponseIt works according to both explanations