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Succah 36b

סוכה ל״ו ע״ב

Sukkah 36b

Learn Succah 36b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

Sukkah 36b — Disqualified אתרוגים, the size of an אתרוג, and what may tie the לולב

Overview

The amud opens by closing an earlier discussion with 'וְתוּ לָא מִידֵּי.' A ברייתא rules that an אתרוג grown in a mold into the shape of another species is פסול, and רבא adds that one still shaped like an אתרוג, even with a layered 'planks' look, is כשר. רב rules that an אתרוג pierced by mice is not הדר. The גמרא challenges him from רבי חנינא, who used a partly eaten אתרוג, and answers that חסר disqualifies only on the first day of סוכות, while mice are different because they are repulsive. A second version has רב ruling that the mouse-pierced אתרוג is הדר. The גמרא then links the walnut-versus-egg dispute over a small אתרוג to a dispute about stones on שבת, and רבי יהודה rejects רבי יוסי's proof from רבי עקיבא's huge אתרוג. A new משנה follows: רבי יהודה requires the לולב to be tied only with its own species, while רבי מאיר allows even a string. רבא explains that palm fibers and trunk count as the לולב's species, and that for רבי יהודה another species would make five species. He begins a proof from a ברייתא about סכך, which continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

וְתוּ לָא מִידֵּי.

And there is nothing more.

גִּדְּלוֹ בִּדְפוּס

If he grew it in a mold

וַעֲשָׂאוֹ כְּמִין בְּרִיָּה אַחֶרֶת — פָּסוּל.

and made it like a different species — it is invalid.

אָמַר רָבָא:

Rava said:

The steps (28)

  1. ConclusionClosing the earlier discussion: nothing more to say
  2. StatementAn אתרוג grown in a mold into another species' shape is invalid
  3. Statementרבא limits the ruling to a different-species shape
  4. ChallengeIsn't רבא's point obvious?
  5. Resolutionרבא is needed for an אתרוג shaped like layered planks
  6. Statementרב: an אתרוג pierced by mice is not beautiful
  7. ChallengeChallenge from רבי חנינא's practice
  8. ChallengeBut רבי חנינא contradicts the משנה
  9. Resolutionרבי חנינא is fine: first day versus later days
  10. ChallengeBut for רב the challenge remains
  11. Resolutionרב: mice are different because they are repulsive
  12. StatementSecond version: רב rules the mouse-pierced אתרוג is beautiful
  13. Challengeרבי חנינא seems to contradict the משנה
  14. ResolutionFirst day versus the later days
  15. StatementThe small אתרוג dispute matches the dispute about rounded stones
  16. ProofThe ברייתא about stones on שבת
  17. Proofרבי עקיבא's אתרוג on his shoulder
  18. Rejectionרבי יהודה rejects the proof
  19. StatementNew משנה: what may be used to tie the לולב
  20. ProofThe people of Jerusalem tied with gold rings
  21. RejectionThe gold rings were only decoration
  22. StatementPalm fibers and trunk count as the לולב's own species
  23. QuestionWhy does רבי יהודה require the lulav's own species?
  24. ResponseA binding is part of the מצוה, so another species would make five
  25. Questionרבא asks for the source that palm fibers and trunk are the לולב's species
  26. ProofA ברייתא: what may a סוכה be covered with?
  27. Proofרבי יהודה's קל וחומר from לולב to סוכה
  28. RejectionA קל וחומר that starts strict but ends lenient is invalid