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Succah 43a

סוכה מ״ג ע״א

Sukkah 43a

Learn Succah 43a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

When the לולב is taken on שבת, the פסוקים behind the לולב laws, and whether סוכה and לולב apply at night

Overview

This amud begins at the end of רבה's explanation. The רבנן banned taking the לולב on שבת because a person might carry it ארבע אמות ברשות הרבים, and the same fear explains why there is no שופר or מגילה on שבת. The גמרא asks why the first day of סוכות is different. It concludes that on the first day the מצוה is מן התורה even in the גבולין, so the רבנן did not ban it. On the other days the מצוה is only דרבנן outside the מקדש, so they did. Today we do not take the לולב on a שבת first day because we are unsure of the date. Those who knew the date did take it, even after the חורבן, as two teachings show. The גמרא then brings the ברייתא on ״ולקחתם לכם ביום הראשון״ as the source, which leads to a debate between רבי אליעזר and the רבנן over the word ״ביום״. The amud ends with a ברייתא trying to prove that סוכה applies at night. Two logical comparisons cancel each other out, and the verse that settles the question comes on the next amud.

Opening lines

וְיַעֲבִירֶנּוּ אַרְבַּע אַמּוֹת

and he will carry it four cubits

בִּרְשׁוּת הָרַבִּים.

in the public domain.

וְהַיְינוּ טַעְמָא דְשׁוֹפָר,

And this is the reason for shofar,

וְהַיְינוּ טַעְמָא דִמְגִילָּה.

and this is the reason for the Megillah.

The steps (28)

  1. StatementThe fear of carrying four cubits, the same reason behind שופר and מגילה
  2. ChallengeThen the first day should be banned too
  3. ResolutionOn the first day it was arranged to be taken at home
  4. ChallengeWhat about the time before that rule was made?
  5. ResolutionNew answer: first day is מן התורה everywhere, other days are not
  6. ChallengeThen we should take it on a שבת first day nowadays too
  7. ResolutionWe do not know exactly when the month was fixed
  8. ChallengeThose who do know the date should take it on שבת
  9. ResolutionYes, those who know the date really did take the לולב on שבת
  10. ProofProof from two teachings: Temple Mount versus synagogue
  11. QuestionWhere do we learn that the first day is Torah law everywhere?
  12. ResponseThe ברייתא reads each word of ״ולקחתם לכם ביום הראשון״
  13. ChallengeWhy would a verse be needed just to permit moving the לולב?
  14. Resolutionרבא: the verse permits preparing the לולב, following רבי אליעזר
  15. QuestionWhat is רבי אליעזר's source?
  16. Response״ביום״ means even on שבת
  17. QuestionHow do the רבנן use ״ביום״?
  18. ResponseFor the רבנן, ״ביום״ means day and not night
  19. QuestionWhere does רבי אליעזר learn day and not night?
  20. ResponseFrom ״שבעת ימים״: days and not nights
  21. ResolutionWhy the רבנן don't rely on ״ימים״
  22. QuestionHow do we know סוכה applies at night?
  23. ResponseA ברייתא: ״ימים״ by סוכה includes nights
  24. ChallengeMaybe סוכה should be like לולב, days only
  25. RejectionOr compare סוכה to the מלואים, days and nights
  26. Proofסוכה is all day long, like the מלואים
  27. ChallengeBut סוכה is for all generations, like לולב
  28. ResponseLogic cannot decide, so the verse will settle it