Succah 46b

סוכה מ״ו ע״ב

Sukkah 46b

Learn Succah 46b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

When an אתרוג or סוכה used for the מצוה becomes permitted at the end of סוכות (including in חוץ לארץ), opened by an aggadah about Torah 'filling' a person

Overview

The amud opens by finishing an aggadic lesson. A human vessel holds more only when it is empty, but with הקדוש ברוך הוא the full person holds more. This is learned from the doubled verb 'אם שמוע תשמע': listening leads to more listening, and reviewing the old leads to learning the new. The גמרא then turns to the משנה's line that children eat their אתרוגים right after the seventh-day מצוה. רבי יוחנן forbids the אתרוג all of the seventh day, and the סוכה even on the eighth. ריש לקיש permits the אתרוג once the מצוה is done. Their dispute is whether the אתרוג was set aside only for its מצוה or for the whole day. The same משנה is used in two versions of a challenge between them, and אביי explains why רבי יוחנן treats the סוכה, which is needed at בין השמשות, more strictly than the אתרוג. The גמרא then brings further views from לוי, אבוה דשמואל and רבי זירא, two teachings of רבי זירא about children, and a parallel dispute between רב and רב אסי. In חוץ לארץ the הלכה follows אביי: the אתרוג is forbidden on the eighth day and permitted on the ninth. Finally, רב and רבי יוחנן discuss how to treat the doubtful eighth day for the סוכה and for the ברכה; everyone agrees we sit in the סוכה, and the exact dispute continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (32)

1. StatementGod's measure: a full vessel holds more
2. ProofProof from the verse: if you listen, you will keep listening
3. StatementAnother reading: review the old to gain the new
4. StatementQuoting the משנה about children eating their אתרוגים
5. Statementרבי יוחנן: the אתרוג is forbidden on the seventh day, the סוכה even on the eighth
6. Statementריש לקיש: the אתרוג is permitted even on the seventh day
7. QuestionWhat is the root of their disagreement?
8. ResponseSet aside for its מצוה, or for the whole day?
9. Challengeריש לקיש challenges from the משנה: children eat their אתרוגים right away
10. ResolutionNo, the משנה means children specifically
11. ChallengeSecond version: רבי יוחנן challenges ריש לקיש from the children
12. Resolutionריש לקיש: the משנה just describes what usually happens
13. Questionרב פפא asks why a סוכה and an אתרוג are treated differently
14. Responseאביי: the סוכה is still usable at twilight, but the אתרוג is not
15. Statementלוי and אבוה דשמואל disagree about the אתרוג on the eighth day
16. StatementWho later followed which view
17. ProofProof from רבי זירא's ruling on a disqualified אתרוג
18. StatementDo not give the ארבעה מינים to a child on the first day
19. QuestionWhy not give it to a child?
20. ResponseA child can receive ownership but cannot give it back
21. StatementDo not promise a child something and fail to give it
22. Statementרב and רב אסי on seven אתרוגים for seven days
23. QuestionWhat is the root of their dispute?
24. ResponseSet aside for the מצוה, or for the whole day
25. QuestionWhat do we do with two days of יום טוב?
26. Responseאביי: forbidden on the eighth, permitted on the ninth
27. Responseמרימר: permitted even on the eighth
28. StatementWhat people actually did about the אתרוג
29. ConclusionThe final ruling follows אביי
30. Statementרב: the doubtful eighth day is seventh for the סוכה and eighth for the ברכה
31. Statementרבי יוחנן: the day is the eighth for both
32. StatementEveryone agrees we sit in the סוכה; setting up the real dispute