Succah 4b

סוכה ד׳ ע״ב

Sukkah 4b

Learn Succah 4b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

Wall distances (לבוד vs. four אמות), imagined walls (גוד אסיק, דיומד) in רבי יעקב's four-posts case, and the source for a סוכה's ten-טפחים minimum height

Overview

This amud covers three topics. First, it finishes a case about a סוכה that is too short, where the floor was dug out to make it ten טפחים tall. The dug-out area must be less than three טפחים from the wall, because the short wall only becomes a wall through לבוד. In contrast, an existing wall can count for a platform up to four אמות away. Next, אביי suggests that a ten-טפח pillar inside a סוכה taller than twenty אמה works through גוד אסיק מחיצתא, but רבא rejects this because a סוכה needs walls that can be seen. Then the גמרא discusses four posts with סכך on top, where רבי יעקב says kosher and the חכמים say not kosher. רב הונא places their argument on the edge of the roof and רב נחמן places it in the middle. רב הונא is refuted about the middle of the roof, and a ברייתא explains that for רבי יעקב thick posts count as corner pieces (דיומד). Finally, the גמרא asks where the ten-טפחים minimum height comes from and begins its answer with the ארון and the כפורת, an answer that continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (20)

1. StatementLess than three handbreadths from the wall makes it kosher
2. ChallengeWhy four cubits there but only three handbreadths here?
3. ResolutionA real wall versus a wall that still needs to be created
4. StatementA ten-handbreadth pillar inside a too-tall סוכה: אביי's first thought
5. Rejectionרבא rejects אביי: walls must be visible
6. StatementFour posts with roofing: רבי יעקב vs. the Sages
7. Statementרב הונא: the dispute is on the edge of the roof
8. Statementרב נחמן: the dispute is in the middle of the roof
9. QuestionWhat does רב נחמן hold about the edge of the roof?
10. ConclusionThe question stays unanswered
11. ChallengeQuoting the ברייתא about posts stuck in the ground
12. ChallengeGround is like the middle of the roof, yet רבי יעקב allows it
13. ConclusionThe גמרא accepts the refutation
14. ChallengeA possible second refutation about the edge of the roof
15. Resolutionרב הונא: the argument covers the edge too
16. Statementרבי יעקב's Test for Corner Posts
17. Statementרבי יעקב and חכמים Disagree on How Small Walls Can Be
18. QuestionWhere Do We Learn the Ten-טפחים Minimum?
19. ResponseThe Sages Who Teach the Source, and a Note on One Name
20. ProofThe Ark and its cover add up to ten handbreadths