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Succah 5b

סוכה ה׳ ע״ב

Sukkah 5b

Learn Succah 5b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

The one-טפח כפורת, and the source for a סוכה's ten-טפח minimum height

Overview

The amud opens by testing רב הונא's teaching that the כפורת was one טפח thick, based on the word ״פני״ (face). Using the rule תפשת מרובה לא תפשת and a גזירה שוה to the face of יצחק, the גמרא confirms the one-טפח size. A tradition that the כרובים' faces were at least a טפח supports it too. רבי אבהו explains that a כרוב has a child's face, and he defends this against אביי's challenge from יחזקאל. The גמרא then asks how we know a סוכה needs ten טפחים of empty space below the סכך. It answers with a calculation from the בית עולמים and the משכן: the כרובים filled one-third of the height, and their wings, called 'סוככים', were spread just above ten טפחים. This math only works for רבי מאיר, so for רבי יהודה the גמרא says the ten טפחים are a הלכה למשה מסיני, as רב taught about שיעורין, חציצין, and מחיצין. The גמרא challenges that שיעורין come from the פסוק of the seven species and begins explaining it with wheat. That explanation continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

דְּבַר יוֹכָנִי!

of the bird bar Yokhani!

תָּפַשְׂתָּ מְרוּבֶּה לֹא תָּפַשְׂתָּ,

If you grasped a lot, you did not grasp anything;

תָּפַשְׂתָּ מוּעָט תָּפַשְׂתָּ.

if you grasped a little, you grasped something.

וְאֵימָא כְּאַפֵּי דְּצִיפַּרְתָּא

But say it is like the face of a bird

The steps (26)

  1. ChallengeWhy not compare to the giant bird's face?
  2. RejectionWhen unsure, take the smaller amount
  3. ChallengeThen why not a tiny bird's face?
  4. Resolutionרב הונא used a גזירה שוה to a human face
  5. ChallengeWhy not link to פני אלהים?
  6. RejectionThe same rule rejects the heavenly face
  7. ChallengeWhy not link to the faces of the כרובים?
  8. ResolutionTradition: the כרובים' faces were at least a טפח
  9. QuestionWhat does a כרוב look like?
  10. ResponseA כרוב has a child's face
  11. Challengeאביי: Then a כרוב and an אדם would be the same
  12. ResolutionA big face and a small face
  13. ChallengeMaybe the ten טפחים include the סכך
  14. ResolutionA new source: the measurements of the בית המקדש
  15. Proofברייתא: The same one-third ratio applies in the משכן
  16. ProofThe math that puts the wings exactly ten טפחים above the כפורת
  17. ChallengeMaybe the wings were level with the כרובים' heads
  18. ResolutionThe פסוק says 'upward'
  19. ChallengeMaybe the wings were very high
  20. Resolution'Upward' is written only once
  21. ChallengeThis works for רבי מאיר, but what about רבי יהודה?
  22. ChallengeBy רבי יהודה's math, a סוכה would need eleven and a half טפחים
  23. ResolutionFor רבי יהודה, the ten טפחים are a tradition from סיני
  24. Proofרב's statement: measures, interpositions, and partitions are from Sinai
  25. ChallengeChallenge: measures are hinted to in the תורה
  26. ProofWheat teaches the measure for a house with צרעת