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Taanis 25b

תענית כ״ה ע״ב

Taanit 25b

Learn Taanis 25b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Taanis 25b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Palm and cedar as images of the צדיק; stories and rules about fasting for rain, the deep waters, and when a rain fast ends

Overview

The גמרא finishes explaining why the פסוק compares a צדיק to both a palm tree and a cedar: the palm gives fruit, and the cedar regrows. A ברייתא seems to say cedars do not regrow, and the גמרא answers that there are ten kinds of cedar. Next come stories of fasting for rain. רבי אליעזר's people cry and rain falls. Later רבי עקיבא's short prayer is answered because he is forgiving. A ברייתא then gives how deep the rain must soak before a fast may end, and teaches that water from the deep rises to meet the rain. The deep calls to the deep when water is poured on the altar on סוכות, and the angel רידיא commands the waters. The גמרא then discusses when rain during a fast lets people stop fasting, and רבי אמי rules like רבי יהודה's midday cutoff. שמואל הקטן teaches that rain coming too early or too late does not prove merit; only an answer at the very moment of prayer does. Finally, the גמרא asks why the people of לוד ate before saying הלל, and אביי and רבא's answer continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

אֵין גִּזְעוֹ מַחְלִיף,

its trunk does not grow back,

אַף צַדִּיק חַס וְשָׁלוֹם

so too a righteous person, Heaven forbid,

אֵין גִּזְעוֹ מַחְלִיף —

his trunk would not grow back —

לְכָךְ נֶאֱמַר אֶרֶז.

therefore it says 'cedar.'

The steps (30)

  1. StatementWhy the verse also says 'cedar'
  2. StatementWhy the verse also says 'palm tree'
  3. ChallengeChallenge: a teaching says cedars do not regrow
  4. ResolutionAnswer: there are different kinds of cedar
  5. ProofSource: ten kinds of cedar
  6. Statementרבי אליעזר's thirteen fasts bring no rain
  7. Statementרבי אליעזר's sharp words move the people to tears, and rain falls
  8. Statementרבי עקיבא's short prayer brings rain
  9. StatementA heavenly voice explains why רבי עקיבא was answered
  10. StatementHow much rain is needed to stop fasting
  11. StatementThe deep rises three handbreadths to meet the rain
  12. ChallengeAnother teaching says only two handbreadths
  13. ResolutionPlowed ground versus unplowed ground
  14. StatementThe deep waters call to each other at the water pouring
  15. ProofThe verse: deep calls to deep
  16. Statementרבה describes the angel רידיא who controls the waters
  17. ProofA verse from שיר השירים supports רבה
  18. StatementWhen rain falls during a fast: רבי מאיר and רבי יהודה
  19. Statementרבי יוסי's view: the ninth hour
  20. ProofProof from אחאב's fast
  21. Statementרבי יהודה נשיאה plans to finish the fast
  22. Rejectionרבי אמי: the cutoff is midday
  23. Statementשמואל הקטן's fast: rain before sunrise
  24. RejectionThe first parable: a master who gives just to stop hearing the servant
  25. StatementA second fast: rain comes after sunset
  26. RejectionThe second parable: a master who makes the servant suffer first
  27. QuestionSo what does count as merit for שמואל הקטן?
  28. ResponseReal merit: the wind and rain come at the very words of the prayer
  29. QuestionBack to the משנה: why not say הלל right away?
  30. Responseאביי and רבא begin their answer