Taanis 28b

תענית כ״ח ע״ב

Taanit 28b

Learn Taanis 28b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

Which מעמד is cancelled on special days, הלל on ראש חודש as a custom, and the sources for the tragedies of שבעה עשר בתמוז

Overview

The amud opens by asking why הלל cancels the מעמד of its own prayer time, while מוסף cancels the מעמד of נעילה. רב אשי shows that רבי יוסי holds מוסף cancels only its own מעמד, and the גמרא proves it by ruling out every other reading of his words. Next the גמרא asks why the משנה does not list ראש חודש ניסן. רבא answers that the הלל of ראש חודש is only a custom, which is backed by רבי יוחנן's list of full-הלל days, by a story about רב in בבל, and by a ברייתא. The גמרא then turns to the five tragedies of שבעה עשר בתמוז. Counting from מתן תורה through משה's forty days on the mountain shows that he broke the לוחות on the seventeenth of תמוז. The stopping of the תמיד and the burning of the תורה are known by tradition. רבא settles the clash between ירמיהו's ninth and the משנה's seventeenth by saying they describe two different destructions. A פסוק in דניאל dates the idol in the היכל, and רבא explains that there were really two idols, one of which broke. The report of what was found written there continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (27)

1. ChallengeWhy does הלל cancel its own watch but מוסף cancels a different one?
2. Resolutionרב אשי: if מוסף cancels another watch, surely it cancels its own
3. ChallengeThe questioner clarifies: מוסף should cancel only its own watch
4. Proofרבי יוסי agrees with the questioner
5. QuestionWhich watch does רבי יוסי mean? Not שחרית
6. RejectionNot the watch of מוסף either
7. RejectionNot the watch of מנחה, since even the wood offering cancels it
8. ProofIt must be נעילה, so מוסף cancels only its own watch
9. ConclusionThe proof is accepted
10. ChallengeWhy not list the first of ניסן too?
11. Resolutionהלל on ראש חודש is not a real obligation
12. ProofThe list of days for full הלל leaves out ראש חודש
13. Proofרב sees the Babylonians skipping parts of הלל
14. StatementAn individual should not start, but if he started he finishes
15. QuestionHow do we know the לוחות broke on the seventeenth of תמוז?
16. ResponseThe date the Ten Commandments were given
17. ResponseOn the seventh, משה went up the mountain
18. ResponseBy both views משה went up on the seventh, so the forty days end on the sixteenth of תמוז
19. Conclusionמשה came down and broke the לוחות on the seventeenth of תמוז
20. ResponseThe daily offering stopping is known by tradition
21. ChallengeWas the city really breached on the seventeenth?
22. ResolutionFirst Temple on the ninth, Second Temple on the seventeenth
23. ResponseThe burning of the תורה is known by tradition
24. QuestionWhere do we know the idol date from?
25. ResponseThe idol came when the daily offering stopped
26. ChallengeWas there only one idol?
27. ResolutionThere were two idols, but one broke