Temurah 15b

תמורה ט״ו ע״ב

Learn Temurah 15b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

The exiles' sin offerings in עזרא (a community never dies; a הוראת שעה), and the אשכולות who ended with יוסף בן יועזר

Overview

The גמרא brings a ברייתא quoting a פסוק in עזרא: the exiles returning from בבל brought twelve goats as sin offerings for the עבודה זרה done in the days of צדקיהו. Since the sinners from צדקיהו's time seem to have died, this challenges the view that a communal חטאת can be left to die (מתה). רב פפא answers that even that view agrees a communal חטאת whose owners died is still brought, because a community never dies, and the גמרא proves this from the goat offerings of יום טוב and ראש חודש, bought with half-shekel money. A second answer says many of the old sinners were still alive, as the פסוקים in עזרא about the loud crying show. The גמרא then asks how a חטאת could be brought for sins done on purpose, and רבי יוחנן answers that it was a הוראת שעה, supported by the extra sheep in the list. A new topic follows: the אשכולות, complete leaders who learned תורה like משה רבינו, ended with יוסף בן יועזר. The גמרא defends this against the 3,000 forgotten הלכות and the majority votes after משה. Finally, a story about a חסיד who lived long after יוסף בן יועזר and had no sin except keeping a goat challenges the ברייתא that later leaders had a flaw; the answer comes on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (27)

1. ChallengeA ברייתא about the exiles' offerings in עזרא
2. QuestionHow can a חטאת be called an עולה?
3. ResponseLike an עולה, these sin offerings were not eaten
4. StatementThe sin was from the days of צדקיהו
5. ChallengeThe owners had died, yet the חטאת was brought
6. ResolutionA community never dies
7. QuestionWhat is רב פפא's source?
8. RejectionThe פסוק about sons replacing fathers is rejected as the source
9. ProofProof from the goat offerings of יום טוב and ראש חודש
10. ResolutionSecond answer: the offerings were for people still alive
11. ChallengeMaybe the survivors were only a minority
12. ResolutionThe criers were not a minority
13. ChallengeHow could they bring sin offerings for sins done on purpose?
14. ResolutionIt was a one-time emergency ruling
15. ProofThe sheep prove it was a special ruling
16. StatementThe אשכולות ended with the two יוסף's
17. ResponseWhat an אשכול means
18. StatementUntil יוסף בן יועזר, leaders learned like משה רבינו
19. ChallengeThree thousand הלכות were forgotten after משה died
20. ResolutionWhat they forgot was lost, but what they knew they learned like משה
21. ChallengeAfter משה, questions were decided by majority vote
22. ResolutionMajority vote applied only where understanding had shrunk
23. StatementThe אשכולות until יוסף בן יועזר had no flaw
24. ChallengeA sick pious man is given a goat for its milk
25. ProofHis friends find only one sin: the goat
26. ProofThe man himself confirms the goat was his only sin
27. ChallengeThe pious man lived long after יוסף בן יועזר