Temurah 30b

תמורה ל׳ ע״ב

Learn Temurah 30b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

Which payments to a זונה become forbidden for the מזבח, and whether the offspring and products of forbidden animals share their status

Overview

The גמרא shows from the wording of the פסוק that relations with an animal are not זנות. A ברייתא adds that only אתנן זונה and מחיר כלב are forbidden, and not their offspring. רבא rules that the offspring of a pregnant נרבעת or נוגחת is forbidden, and there are two versions of his ruling on the offspring of a מוקצה or נעבד. רב teaches that קידושין with the dung of a שור הנסקל works, but not with the dung of עבודה זרה calves, and the גמרא gives a reason from logic and one from the פסוקים. A new משנה lists which payments to a זונה become forbidden: wine, oil, flour and birds do, while money and מוקדשין do not. It also teaches that the offspring of animals forbidden for the מזבח are permitted, with stricter views about a טרפה. The גמרא discusses a payment that changed form (a dispute between בית שמאי and בית הלל), what the words 'בית ה׳ אלהיך' teach, and why a פסוק was needed to exclude מוקדשין, answered with רבי's view on sharing a פסח. It ends with different versions of exactly where רבי אליעזר and the רבנן disagree about the offspring of a נרבעת.

Opening lines

The steps (42)

1. QuestionWhere do we learn that there is no prostitution with animals?
2. ResponseThe verse could have written 'payment of a prostitute and a dog'
3. ProofA ברייתא supports this: two and not four
4. StatementThe offspring of אתנן and מחיר are permitted
5. Statementרבא: the offspring of a נרבעת or a נוגחת is forbidden
6. StatementThe offspring of a מוקצה or a נעבד is permitted
7. StatementAnother version: the offspring of a מוקצה or a נעבד is forbidden
8. StatementBetrothing with the dung of a stoned ox versus idol-worship calves
9. QuestionWhat is the reason for the difference?
10. ResponseThe logical reason: the idol worshipper wants the animal's bulk
11. ResponseThe reason from the verses: anything from an idol is like the idol, but only the ox's meat is forbidden
12. StatementNew משנה: which items given as a harlot's payment become forbidden
13. StatementBirds given as payment are forbidden
14. ChallengeLogic would have permitted birds
15. ResolutionThe פסוק 'for any vow' includes birds
16. StatementOffspring of forbidden animals are permitted
17. Statementרבי אליעזר: offspring of a טרפה is forbidden
18. StatementAn animal that nursed from a טרפה is disqualified
19. Statementקדשים that became טרפה are not redeemed
20. ChallengeTwo ברייתות disagree about a changed payment
21. ResolutionIt is a מחלוקת of בית שמאי and בית הלל
22. Statementבית הלל's source: 'הם' excludes offspring and changes
23. StatementHow בית שמאי read the פסוק
24. ChallengeWhat does בית הלל do with the word 'גם'?
25. ConclusionThe word 'גם' stays difficult for בית הלל
26. StatementWhat 'the House of ה׳ your God' excludes and includes
27. QuestionWho are these חכמים?
28. Responseרב חסדא: it is רבי יוסי ברבי יהודה
29. StatementBack to the משנה: paying a זונה with consecrated items
30. ChallengeA קל וחומר: consecrated animals should become אתנן too
31. ResolutionThe פסוק 'לכל נדר' leaves out consecrated animals
32. ChallengeWhy was a פסוק needed, if consecrated animals are not his?
33. Resolutionרב הושעיא: he registered her on his קרבן פסח
34. ProofThe ברייתא begins: the first opinion allows money from the פסח only for food
35. Proofרבי allows registering others on his פסח even for non-food money
36. Statementרב says רבי אליעזר forbids the offspring of altar-forbidden animals
37. Statementרב נחמן: the dispute is when pregnancy came before the bestiality
38. Statementרבא: the dispute is when the bestiality came before the pregnancy
39. Statementרבא: pregnant first, bestiality after, everyone forbids
40. Proofרבא is consistent with his own rule
41. StatementAnother version: the dispute is when the animal was already consecrated
42. Statementרבא's version of רב נחמן: the dispute is when the animal was ordinary