Gemara Clarity

Yoma 64a

יומא ס״ד ע״א

Learn Yoma 64a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Yoma 64a in Gemara Clarity

Topic

רבא's case of a שעיר המשתלח that is מחוסר זמן. The dispute between רב and רבי יוחנן over whether בעלי חיים נדחין, including the reading of 'בהם' and רב's reliance on רבי יוסי's rule of מצוה בראשון.

Overview

The amud opens by finishing an earlier question: how could the שעיר המשתלח (the goat sent to עזאזל) ever be מחוסר זמן? רבא answers that the goat's mother was slaughtered on יום הכיפורים to save a sick person, so the איסור of אותו ואת בנו blocks the goat that day. The גמרא objects that this goat is pushed off a cliff, not slaughtered. It answers with a teaching from ארץ ישראל that the push off the cliff counts as this goat's שחיטה. Next the גמרא turns to the משנה's case where one goat died and a new pair was brought. רב says the leftover goat of the first pair is offered, and רבי יוחנן says it grazes. Their argument is whether בעלי חיים נדחין, meaning whether a live animal that was pushed off stays pushed off forever. רב's source is a בעל מום עובר, an animal with a temporary blemish. The two sides then argue over how to read the word 'בהם' in the פסוק, which also connects to a משנה about mixed limbs. Finally, רבא explains that רב gives the first goat priority because he follows רבי יוסי's rule of מצוה בראשון, which comes from the case of a lost קרבן פסח.

Opening lines

רָבָא אָמַר:

Rava said:

כְּגוֹן שֶׁהָיָה לוֹ חוֹלֶה בְּתוֹךְ בֵּיתוֹ,

For example, where he had a sick person in his house,

וְשָׁחַט אִמּוֹ בְּיוֹם הַכִּפּוּרִים.

and he slaughtered its mother on Yom Kippur.

וְכִי הַאי גַּוְונָא מִי אֲסִיר?

And in a case like this, is it forbidden?

The steps (25)

  1. Responseרבא's case of a scapegoat that is lacking time
  2. ChallengeChallenge: pushing off a cliff is not slaughter
  3. ResolutionAnswer: in ארץ ישראל they say the cliff counts as slaughter
  4. StatementQuoting the משנה: if the goat for God died
  5. Statementרב: the leftover of the first pair is offered
  6. Statementרבי יוחנן: the leftover of the second pair is offered
  7. QuestionWhat is the root of their disagreement?
  8. ResponseCan a live animal be permanently rejected?
  9. QuestionWhat is the source of רב's view?
  10. ResponseFirst suggestion: רב learns from an animal too young to be offered
  11. RejectionThe comparison fails: a young animal was never fit at all
  12. ResponseSecond suggestion: רב learns from an animal with a temporary blemish
  13. QuestionHow do we know the temporary-blemish rule?
  14. ResponseThe פסוק: only while the blemish is in them are they rejected
  15. Rejectionרבי יוחנן limits the blemish rule to blemished animals only
  16. Resolutionרב reads 'in them' as being about mixtures
  17. Proofמשנה about mixed limbs supports רב's reading
  18. Responseרבי יוחנן learns mixtures from 'בם' versus 'בהם'
  19. Responseרב does not expound 'בם' versus 'בהם'
  20. ChallengeWhy must רב use the first goat at all?
  21. Resolutionרבא: רב follows רבי יוסי that the first one is preferred
  22. QuestionWhich statement of רבי יוסי is meant?
  23. ProofFirst suggestion: רבי יוסי on the coin containers
  24. RejectionThe containers case is different
  25. ResponseThe real source: רבי יוסי on the lost פסח