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Zevachim 11b

זבחים י״א ע״ב

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Topic

When an offering slaughtered for the sake of another offering stays kosher (רבי אליעזר, שמעון אחי עזריה), and בן בתירא's view that the whole 14th is the time of the פסח

Overview

The amud opens with רבי יהושע challenging רבי אליעזר's קל וחומר about offerings slaughtered for the sake of a פסח. רבי אליעזר answers that a פסח is special because it is kosher for its own sake only at its set time. The גמרא then turns to שמעון אחי עזריה, who says an offering slaughtered for the sake of a holier offering stays kosher, and it finds his source in the words ״אשר ירימו״. That same פסוק also teaches שמואל's law about eating טבל. רבי זירא asks whether, for שמעון אחי עזריה, such offerings also count for the owner. A proof from the בכור clause of the משנה is rejected, because that clause is needed to teach 'higher and lower' even among קדשים קלים. A new משנה follows. It brings the מחלוקת of רבי יהושע and בן בתירא about a פסח slaughtered שלא לשמו on the morning of the 14th, and בן עזאי's tradition from the seventy-two elders. The גמרא explains that for בן בתירא the whole 14th is the time of the פסח, because he reads 'בין הערבים' as 'between the two evenings.' It then tests this reading against the תמיד, the lamps of the מנורה and the קטרת, and the answer about the קטרת continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

אָמַר לוֹ רַבִּי יְהוֹשֻׁעַ:

Rabbi Yehoshua said to him:

מָצִינוּ מוֹתַר חַטָּאת בָּא עוֹלָה,

We find that a leftover sin offering is brought as a burnt offering,

וְאֵין מוֹתַר עוֹלָה בָּא חַטָּאת;

but a leftover burnt offering is not brought as a sin offering.

וּמָה חַטָּאת, שֶׁמּוֹתָרָהּ בָּא עוֹלָה –

Now, just as a sin offering, whose leftover is brought as a burnt offering,

The steps (32)

  1. Challengeרבי יהושע shows the same reasoning leads to a wrong result
  2. Resolutionרבי אליעזר shows how a פסח differs from a חטאת
  3. StatementMoving on to שמעון אחי עזריה in the משנה
  4. StatementThe פסוק behind שמעון אחי עזריה's view
  5. ChallengeThe verse is already needed for שמואל's law about untithed produce
  6. ResolutionThe unusual wording teaches both laws
  7. Questionרבי זירא asks how far שמעון אחי עזריה disagrees
  8. Proofאביי brings a teaching about a firstborn and a tithe animal
  9. ProofA firstborn never brings atonement, so the earlier clause works the same way
  10. RejectionEach clause may follow its own rule
  11. ChallengeThen why is the second clause needed at all?
  12. ResolutionThe בכור clause teaches 'higher and lower' even among lighter offerings
  13. ChallengeAnother משנה already teaches that שלמים outrank בכור
  14. ResolutionOur משנה is the main source; the other one mentions it in passing
  15. StatementA פסח slaughtered not for its sake on the morning of the 14th
  16. Statementבן עזאי's tradition from the seventy-two elders
  17. Conclusionבן עזאי added only the עולה, and the חכמים disagreed
  18. Statementבן בתירא holds that the whole fourteenth is the time of the פסח
  19. ChallengeWhy did the משנה say 'as though'?
  20. Resolutionבן בתירא just copied רבי יהושע's wording
  21. ChallengeWhy not present the argument about a פסח slaughtered for its own sake?
  22. ResolutionThe שלא לשמו case teaches something new
  23. ChallengeBut the פסוק says 'בין הערבים'
  24. Resolution'Between the two evenings' means the whole day
  25. ChallengeWould the daily offering also be fit all day?
  26. ResolutionThe morning lamb shows the other lamb is in the afternoon
  27. ChallengeMaybe the second lamb can be brought any time
  28. Resolution'One' in the morning means not two
  29. ChallengeCan the lamps also be lit all day?
  30. ResolutionThe lamps must burn from evening until morning
  31. ChallengeCan the incense also be burned all day?
  32. ResolutionThe incense is a different case