Chullin 109b

חולין ק״ט ע״ב

Learn Chullin 109b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Chullin 109b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Is a cooked untorn udder permitted, how is it torn, and may it be roasted without tearing?

Overview

The משנה says that someone who cooks an udder without tearing it open first 'does not violate' the ban on בשר בחלב. In one version, רבי זירא quotes רב that the udder is fully permitted. In a second version, רב says it is still rabbinically forbidden. In both versions the גמרא tests רב against the משנה's wording and against a ברייתא about tearing the heart, and each source can be read either way. A ברייתא then supports the first version: an udder cooked in its milk is permitted, but a stomach cooked with its milk is forbidden, because the stomach's milk was collected inside the animal. רב יהודה requires a cross-shaped tear and pressing the udder against a wall, while a story about רבי אלעזר shows that a simple tear is enough. ילתא tells רב נחמן that for everything the Torah forbade, it permitted something similar, and asks for a taste of meat with milk. רב נחמן has udders roasted for her. The גמרא explains that tearing is needed only for a pot, and that roasting an untorn udder is allowed even from the start. The explanation of that wording continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (23)

1. Statementרב: The untorn udder is fully permitted
2. ChallengeThe משנה's wording suggests a lesser prohibition remains
3. ResolutionThe wording was borrowed from the heart case
4. ProofAttempted support from a ברייתא
5. RejectionThe ברייתא may mean the udder cannot be fixed
6. StatementSecond version: רב says the untorn udder is forbidden
7. ProofTrying to support רב from the משנה's wording
8. RejectionThe משנה's wording only matches the heart case
9. ChallengeChallenge from the ברייתא: only the heart needs tearing after cooking
10. ResolutionTearing can fix the heart but not the udder
11. ProofA ברייתא supports רב's first version
12. QuestionHow should the udder be torn?
13. Responseרב יהודה: tear it crosswise and press it on a wall
14. Statementרבי אלעזר tells his attendant to tear the udder
15. ChallengeWhy tell us this? The משנה already says it
16. ResolutionA simple tear is enough
17. Statementילתא: for everything forbidden, something similar is permitted
18. Statementילתא finishes her list and asks for a taste of meat with milk
19. Statementרב נחמן has udders roasted for ילתא
20. ChallengeDoesn't the משנה require tearing the udder?
21. ResolutionTearing is only needed for a pot
22. ChallengeThe teaching's wording suggests 'only after the fact'
23. ResolutionThe wording just matches the stomach case