Chullin 115b

חולין קט״ו ע״ב

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Topic

The sources for the eating and benefit prohibitions of בשר בחלב, and the rules for refuting a קל וחומר and a במה הצד.

Overview

This amud asks where we learn that בשר בחלב is forbidden to eat and forbidden for הנאה. רבי יוחנן challenges ריש לקיש: רבי already learned the eating ban from the extra ״לא תאכלנו״. ריש לקיש answers that his own source adds the ban on benefit, and the גמרא shows that רבי learns benefit from a גזירה שוה of קדוש and קדש. Then come more sources: דבי רבי אליעזר learns it from selling a נבלה, and דבי רבי ישמעאל learns it from the three times the תורה writes ״לא תבשל גדי״. איסי בן יהודה learns eating from טרפה and benefit from a קל וחומר from ערלה, which the גמרא defends using חמץ and כלאי הכרם. The גמרא then asks why איסי needs a גזירה שוה at all, and why it needed כלאי הכרם instead of a במה הצד. This leads רב אשי and רב מרדכי into a back-and-forth about how each kind of proof may be refuted. The amud ends as רב מרדכי begins a new version of ריש לקיש's teaching, which continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (25)

1. ChallengeWhy invent a new source when רבי already taught one?
2. ProofHow רבי knows the פסוק is about meat and milk
3. Resolutionרבי's source covers eating, but not benefit
4. QuestionWhere does רבי learn the benefit prohibition?
5. Responseרבי learns it from the words קדוש and קדש
6. StatementThe school of רבי אליעזר: you may sell a נבלה, but not after cooking it in milk
7. StatementThe school of רבי ישמעאל: three פסוקים for three prohibitions
8. Statementאיסי בן יהודה: eating בשר בחלב is forbidden, learned from טרפה
9. Questionאיסי בן יהודה asks: where do we learn the benefit prohibition?
10. ResponseA קל וחומר from ערלה proves benefit is forbidden
11. Rejectionערלה is special: it was never permitted
12. Proofחמץ בפסח shows that an item once permitted can still be forbidden for benefit
13. Rejectionחמץ is special: it carries כרת
14. Proofכלאי הכרם has no כרת but is still forbidden for benefit
15. ChallengeWhy not learn the eating prohibition from ערלה too?
16. ResolutionA logical argument for eating could be broken, so a verse-based link is needed
17. ChallengeWhy not combine ערלה and חמץ instead of using כלאי הכרם?
18. Resolutionרב אשי: נבלה would break the combined proof
19. Rejectionרב מרדכי: a במה הצד cannot be broken by an outside case
20. ChallengeThen use a בְּמָה הַצַּד after all
21. ResolutionBoth sources grow from the ground
22. Challengeכלאי הכרם grows from the ground too
23. ResolutionDifferent rules for refuting different proofs
24. ChallengeRefute all three sources together
25. Resolutionרב מרדכי introduces a different version of ריש לקיש's teaching