Gemara Clarity

Chullin 129b

חולין קכ״ט ע״ב

Learn Chullin 129b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Chullin 129b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

Why does רבי שמעון say a dangling limb or flesh is not treated as food? רבי זירא challenges the reason given in the name of רבי יוחנן, and רבי אסי explains which part of the משנה that reason refers to.

Overview

The amud opens by finishing רבי יוחנן's reason, quoted by רבי אסי, for רבי שמעון's view about flesh or a limb hanging from an animal: food that cannot be given to others to eat is not called food. רבי זירא suggests a simpler reason, that the hanging piece is still attached, and supports it with the case of a split fig branch. רבי אסי answers that the reason belongs to the middle case of the משנה, where the animal was slaughtered. רבי זירא objects that the middle case already has other explanations. So the גמרא settles on the last case, where the animal died, and applies רבי שמעון's ruling to the hanging flesh. A new משנה then deals with a limb or flesh hanging from a person, where רבי מאיר and רבי שמעון disagree after the person dies. The גמרא explains that רבי שמעון is speaking generally: he holds that a limb from a dead body is not טמא. It shows the same argument between רבי אליעזר and רבי יהושע. It then finds the practical difference between a limb from the living and a limb from the dead, using a משנה about small pieces of flesh and bone that come off such a limb. The chapter הָעוֹר וְהָרוֹטֶב then ends.

Opening lines

לַאֲחֵרִים – אֵין קָרוּי אוֹכֶל.

to others – is not called food.

אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַבִּי זֵירָא לְרַבִּי אַסִּי:

Rabbi Zeira said to Rabbi Asi:

דִּילְמָא טַעְמָא דְּרַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן הָתָם,

Perhaps the reason of Rabbi Shimon there

הוֹאִיל וּמְעוֹרֶה – מְעוֹרֶה.

is: since it is attached, it is considered attached.

The steps (20)

  1. StatementFood that others cannot eat is not called food
  2. ChallengeMaybe the reason is that the piece is still attached
  3. ProofSupport from the case of the split fig branch
  4. ResolutionThe reason refers to the middle case of the משנה
  5. ResolutionThe verse-based reason is now placed on the middle case
  6. ChallengeThe middle case already has other explanations
  7. ResolutionBack to the last case, but about the flesh
  8. Resolutionרבי יוחנן's reason is restated for the hanging flesh
  9. StatementNew משנה: a limb or flesh hanging from a person
  10. Challengeרבי שמעון's view seems impossible either way
  11. Resolutionרבי שמעון is arguing about a limb from the dead in general
  12. Proofרבי אליעזר's tradition: a limb from the living is impure
  13. Challengeרבי יהושע's קל וחומר: a limb from the dead should be impure too
  14. ProofA comparison from מגילת תענית: mentioning the smaller case includes the bigger one
  15. Resolutionרבי אליעזר's reply: this is what I received
  16. QuestionWhat difference does it make which kind of limb it counts as?
  17. ResponseThe difference: small pieces that come off the limb
  18. ProofThe משנה showing the argument about those small pieces
  19. ConclusionThe same difference explains תנא קמא and רבי שמעון
  20. ConclusionHadran — Closing הָעוֹר וְהָרוֹטֶב