Chullin 81a

חולין פ״א ע״א

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Topic

The source for the ban on offering a very young animal, and whether אותו ואת בנו and its מלקות apply to קדשים according to רבי שמעון

Overview

The גמרא finishes explaining that offering an animal younger than eight days is a לאו הבא מכלל עשה. That counts as a positive commandment, so there are no lashes. It asks how 'from the eighth day' can be the source, since רבי אפטוריקי needs that verse to teach that the night before the eighth day is for making the animal holy and the day is for offering it. The answer is that another verse in שמות teaches the positive commandment. Then רב המנונא reports that, for רבי שמעון, אותו ואת בנו does not apply to קדשים, because slaughtering קדשים does not make the meat permitted. רבא challenges this from a ברייתא about mother-and-young offerings slaughtered outside the עזרה. He first fixes the ברייתא by showing words are missing. Its last case, where רבי שמעון gives only a לאו, proves that the איסור does apply to קדשים. So רבא re-reads רב המנונא: only the מלקות does not apply, because the warning is a הַתְרָאַת סָפֵק. רבא's rulings about a חולין mother with a שלמים or עולה offspring follow the same idea.

Opening lines

The steps (18)

1. ResolutionThe Torah turned this prohibition into a positive commandment
2. ProofThe source: 'From the eighth day and on it will be accepted'
3. ChallengeThat verse is already needed for רבי אפטוריקי's teaching
4. Challengeרבי אפטוריקי's solution: the night is for making it holy, the day is for offering
5. ResolutionAnother verse teaches the positive commandment
6. Statementרבי שמעון: אותו ואת בנו does not apply to sacrificial animals
7. ResponseThe reason: slaughtering a sacrificial animal is a slaughter that is not fit
8. Challengeרבא challenges רב המנונא from a ברייתא about sacrifices slaughtered outside
9. ChallengeThe baraita does not fit רבי שמעון's own rule
10. ResolutionWords are missing from the ברייתא: the view of the רבנן
11. ResolutionIn the corrected ברייתא, רבי שמעון gives כרת for both animals
12. StatementThe ברייתא continues: first animal outside, second inside
13. StatementThe ברייתא continues: first animal inside, second outside
14. ChallengeIf אותו ואת בנו does not apply to קדשים, why only a לאו?
15. Resolutionרבא re-reads רב המנונא: only the lashes do not apply
16. ResolutionWhy there is no מלקות: the warning is uncertain
17. Statementרבא's case of a חולין mother and a שלמים offspring
18. Statementרבא opens a new case: an offspring brought as an עולה