Chullin 81b

חולין פ״א ע״ב

Learn Chullin 81b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

אותו ואת בנו (slaughtering a mother animal and its offspring on the same day): whether slaughter that does not produce meat a person may eat still counts as slaughter, and whether the altar 'eating' a קרבן counts as eating.

Overview

The amud opens by finishing a statement that follows רבי שמעון's view: only slaughter that makes meat fit to eat counts for אותו ואת בנו. So slaughtering one animal as an עולה, which people never eat, and then the other as חולין is exempt. רבי יעקב quotes רבי יוחנן, who disagrees: the altar's 'eating' counts as eating, learned from the doubled words הֵאָכֹל יֵאָכֵל. A new משנה then lists slaughters that never produce permitted meat, such as a טרפה, slaughter for עבודה זרה, a פרת חטאת, a שור הנסקל and an עגלה ערופה. רבי שמעון exempts in these cases and the חכמים hold him liable. In every view, an invalid שחיטה, stabbing or tearing out the organs is exempt. In the גמרא, ריש לקיש and רבי יוחנן argue about a second slaughter done for עבודה זרה when the person was warned only about אותו ואת בנו: does the greater sin cancel the lashes even without a warning? The גמרא shows they hold the same positions in רב דימי's case about death or lashes together with a money payment, and explains why both disputes had to be taught. Finally, the גמרא asks whether the slaughter of the פרת חטאת is really 'unfit', since רבי שמעון elsewhere says it can receive טומאת אוכלין. The answer comes on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (14)

1. StatementEven slaughtering an עולה first does not make one liable
2. StatementThe altar's 'eating' counts as eating
3. ProofThe proof from the doubled words הֵאָכֹל יֵאָכֵל
4. StatementNew משנה: slaughter that never yields permitted meat
5. StatementInvalid slaughter, stabbing, or tearing out: exempt
6. StatementLiable only when the idol slaughter came first
7. ChallengeThat point is too obvious to teach
8. StatementSometimes he is liable even when the idol slaughter came second
9. StatementExempt either way
10. StatementThe same argument appears in another case
11. StatementThe reason behind each side
12. StatementWhy we need both arguments: part one
13. ConclusionWhy we need both arguments: part two
14. ChallengeIs the red heifer's slaughter really 'unfit'?