Gemara Clarity

Chullin 84a

חולין פ״ד ע״א

Learn Chullin 84a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Chullin 84a in Gemara Clarity

Topic

No כיסוי הדם for consecrated birds or for a בהמה, and the תורה's lessons of דרך ארץ about eating meat and spending wisely

Overview

The amud opens by explaining why there is no כיסוי הדם for a bird consecrated for בדק הבית. It cannot be redeemed after slaughter, because redemption needs העמדה והערכה. רב יוסף shows that this follows רבי, who takes one point from רבי מאיר and one from רבי שמעון. A second answer uses the פסוק ״וְשָׁפַךְ וְכִסָּה״: covering applies only when nothing comes between pouring and covering. The same answer works for קדשי מזבח too. מר בר רב אשי learns the same exemption from ״חַיָּה אוֹ עוֹף״. רבא then answers יעקב מינאה that a בהמה's blood is poured 'like water' and needs no covering, and the גמרא proves from the מקוה פסוק that blood still cannot purify. Next, ברייתות learn lessons of דרך ארץ about meat: eat it with effort and real appetite, from your own animals, and never use up everything you own. רבי אלעזר בן עזריה gives a food-spending scale, and רב, רבי יוחנן and רב נחמן discuss it. The amud closes with money lessons from a פסוק in משלי and opens a statement by רבי יוחנן that continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

וְלִיפְרְקִינְהוּ וְלִיכַסִּינְהוּ?

But let him redeem them and cover them!

בָּעֵינַן הַעֲמָדָה וְהַעֲרָכָה.

We require setting and valuating.

וּכְמַאן?

And in accordance with whom?

אִי כְּרַבִּי מֵאִיר, דְּאָמַר:

If like Rabbi Meir, who says:

The steps (37)

  1. ChallengeWhy not redeem the birds and then cover the blood?
  2. ResolutionRedemption needs standing and valuing
  3. ChallengeIt cannot follow רבי מאיר
  4. ChallengeIt cannot follow רבי שמעון either
  5. Resolutionרב יוסף: it is רבי, taking one view from each
  6. ResolutionThe whole ruling can follow רבי שמעון, learned from the פסוק
  7. ResolutionThe same rule explains birds of קדשי מזבח
  8. Proofמר בר רב אשי learns the exemption from ״חַיָּה אוֹ עוֹף״
  9. ChallengeChallenge: the comparison would exclude all doves and pigeons
  10. ResolutionThe comparison to a חיה means no species of bird is left out
  11. Challengeיעקב the heretic asks why a בהמה does not count as a חיה for covering
  12. Resolutionרבא: a בהמה's blood is poured out like water, so it needs no covering
  13. ChallengeIf blood is like water, should it work for טבילה?
  14. ResolutionOnly real bodies of water purify, not blood
  15. ChallengeMaybe the exclusion only removes other liquids, not blood
  16. ResolutionThere are two exclusions in the פסוק
  17. ChallengeBoth exclusions may be needed for other liquids
  18. ResolutionThere are three exclusions, and the third excludes blood
  19. QuestionDoes covering the blood apply to animals that are already 'trapped'?
  20. ResponseThe word 'a trapping' includes every case
  21. QuestionThen why does the פסוק say 'who traps'?
  22. ResponseMeat should come with effort, like something hunted
  23. StatementEat meat only when you really want it
  24. QuestionMay one just buy meat from the market?
  25. ResponseSlaughter from your own animals
  26. QuestionMay one slaughter all his animals to eat?
  27. ResponseFrom your cattle, not all your cattle
  28. StatementA spending scale for food based on wealth
  29. QuestionWhen do the less wealthy eat meat?
  30. ResponseEvery Friday, for שבת
  31. Statementרב: We should follow the elder's advice
  32. Statementרבי יוחנן: That works for the strong, not for us
  33. Statementרב נחמן: We even borrow to eat
  34. StatementLessons from the פסוק in משלי: own animals, not just land
  35. StatementYour own food comes first
  36. StatementDon't get your children used to meat and wine
  37. StatementOpening a new statement from רבי יוחנן