Kereisos 10a

כריתות י׳ ע״א

Keritot 10a

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Topic

Does רבי יהודה's rule that a second twin 'is like it does not exist' (וָלָד שֵׁנִי כְּמַאן דְּלֵיתֵיהּ דָּמֵי) apply only to the קרבן, or also to טומאה and טהרה?

Overview

The גמרא asks whether רבי יהודה's rule, that a second twin is treated as if it does not exist, applies only to the יולדת's קרבן or also to טומאה and טהרה. Another possibility is that he counts the second twin only when it makes things stricter. רב הונא מסורא tries to prove the answer from a ברייתא that lets the קרבן פסח be brought for a יולדת on day 40 or 80, which רב חסדא explained as following רבי יהודה. The גמרא rejects the proof. It reads the ברייתא as a פסח הבא בטומאה and works through what that means for immersion, a טבול יום and a מחוסר כפורים. It also gives רבא's reading, from רב אשי: an early, bloodless miscarriage before the fetus is formed. רבי שמעיה then brings a ברייתא saying the sixty days of purity after a girl must be continuous, and argues it must follow רבי יהודה. The גמרא shows it can fit רבנן too, in a case of twins, a girl and then a boy. Finally אביי brings a similar ברייתא about the thirty days after a boy, and the גמרא begins to ask whose view it is; that question continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (28)

1. QuestionDoes רבי יהודה's rule apply to impurity too?
2. QuestionMaybe he only applies it to be strict
3. ProofA teaching about a new mother and the קרבן פסח
4. ChallengeBut she is still impure that night
5. ResolutionThe teaching follows רבי יהודה
6. ProofFinishing the proof: the second twin doesn't count for טומאה either
7. RejectionRejecting the proof: the ברייתא is about a פסח brought in impurity
8. ChallengeA יולדת doesn't eat even a פסח brought in impurity
9. ResolutionThe משנה means women who have not yet immersed
10. ChallengeThen she should be fit from day eight
11. ResolutionNot fit from day eight, because a טבול יום of a זב is like a זב
12. ChallengeThen she should not be fit on day forty either
13. ResolutionOn day forty she is fit, because a מחוסר כפורים of a זב is not like a זב
14. QuestionHow does רבא explain the ברייתא?
15. Responseרב אשי: the ברייתא is about a miscarriage before the fetus is formed
16. ChallengeShe should still be טמאה as a נדה
17. ResolutionIt was a dry birth
18. ChallengeThen why teach it at all?
19. ResolutionWe might have thought the womb cannot open without blood
20. ProofThe sixty days of purity must be continuous
21. QuestionWhose opinion is this ברייתא?
22. ProofSo רבי יהודה uses the second birth only to be strict
23. RejectionNo, the ברייתא can follow רבנן: a boy born inside the girl's eighty days
24. ChallengeThat case does not work for רבנן
25. ResolutionA twins case where רבנן do have split days
26. ResolutionTwins: the boy's impure days do not split the girl's count
27. Proofאביי's new source: the thirty days after a boy must be continuous
28. QuestionWhose view is אביי's source? Could it be the רבנן?