Kereisos 15a

כריתות ט״ו ע״א

Keritot 15a

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Topic

Is the ruling of רבי יוחנן בן נורי (multiple liabilities for one act with his mother-in-law) the same as the view of סומכוס (eighty lashes in a case of אותו ואת בנו)? רבא and רב נחמן בר יצחק each show why the two views need not depend on each other.

Overview

The amud opens by finishing a ברייתא in which סומכוס gives eighty lashes for slaughtering the middle animal of three generations on one day. רבא and רב נחמן בר יצחק each show why the view of רבי יוחנן בן נורי about a mother-in-law does not have to match סומכוס. One points to separate names and the other to separate bodies. Then a new משנה tells how רבי עקיבא asked רבן גמליאל and רבי יהושע about a man who sins with his sister, his father's sister and his mother's sister. The גמרא explains that the case is one woman who carries all three labels. A קל וחומר from five wives who are נדות fails, so the rule that each label counts is learned from the פסוק "ערות אחותו גלה". רב אדא בר אהבה shows how such a family can exist. A ברייתא then brings the dispute between רבי אליעזר and the חכמים about repeated acts with one woman. רבה and רב יוסף argue over whether רבי אליעזר's reason also applies to reaping twice on שבת, and רבה survives אביי's challenge. Finally a new משנה begins with רבי עקיבא's question about a limb dangling from an animal, and the answer continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (29)

1. ProofThe case of three generations of animals slaughtered on one day
2. Rejectionרבא: רבי יוחנן בן נורי may rely on separate names
3. RejectionWith animals there are no separate names
4. Rejectionרב נחמן בר יצחק: סומכוס may rely on separate bodies
5. RejectionWith one woman, סומכוס might count only one sin
6. Questionרבי עקיבא asks about sister, father's sister and mother's sister
7. ResponseThe teachers answer with five wives who are נדות
8. ChallengeWhy was רבי עקיבא unsure at all?
9. ResolutionThe real case: one woman with several forbidden labels
10. ResponseThey had not heard this case, but knew about five wives who are נדות
11. ProofThe קל וחומר: if one name counts five times, three names surely count
12. RejectionThe קל וחומר falls: the five wives are separate bodies
13. ProofThe real source: the extra words in the פסוק
14. StatementHow one woman can be sister, father's sister and mother's sister
15. StatementRepeated acts with the same woman: one חטאת or many?
16. StatementThe חכמים agree in the case of five wives
17. Challengeרבא challenges the reason 'since he caused them'
18. ResolutionThe real reason: five separate bodies
19. QuestionWhat about reaping twice on שבת?
20. QuestionFirst side: he did two acts
21. QuestionThe other side: maybe the reason is that the acts cannot be joined
22. Responseרבה: The reason is that he did two acts
23. Responseרב יוסף: The reason is that the acts cannot be joined
24. Challengeאביי quotes a ברייתא about אבות and תולדות
25. ChallengeThe same main labor twice is exempt, so how can רבה be right?
26. ResolutionThe vine and the fig were cut at the same moment
27. ResolutionReaping twice is exempt only when done at once
28. Questionרבי עקיבא asks about a limb hanging loose from an animal
29. Responseרבן גמליאל and רבי יהושע answer from what they heard about a person