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Kesubos 27b

כתובות כ״ז ע״ב

Ketubot 27b

Learn Kesubos 27b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

Who is believed that a captive woman stayed pure: מה לי לשקר, her maidservant, 'תרתי לא עבדי', casual speech, and the case of רבי זכריה בן הקצב.

Overview

This amud deals with who is believed when a woman who was taken captive says she stayed pure. First the גמרא finishes asking whether מה לי לשקר helps her. It compares her to רבא's case of the rented donkey, where אביי said the rule cannot beat known facts. The גמרא answers that her defilement is only a worry, not a known fact, so מה לי לשקר works for her. Next, the גמרא asks whether even her own maidservant is believed, since a משנה in גיטין says her own maidservant does not count. רב פפי, רב פפא and רב אשי each answer differently. רב אשי's answer rests on the rule 'תרתי לא עבדי': a person may hide the truth but will not also lie, and a story about רב חסדא and a violent man supports this rule. The גמרא then tests whether these views match a dispute between two ברייתות. It shows that רב פפא can explain the lenient ברייתא as casual speech (מסיח לפי תומו). A new משנה tells of רבי זכריה בן הקצב, whose testimony about his own wife was rejected, and how he kept her in a separate house anyway. The amud ends with אביי asking whether a divorcée may be housed the same way, and a ברייתא is brought to answer him.

Opening lines

מָה לִי לְשַׁקֵּר.

Why would I lie?

אוֹ דִלְמָא לָא אָמְרִינַן?

Or perhaps we do not say this?

וּמַאי שְׁנָא מֵהָהוּא מַעֲשֶׂה,

And how is this different from that incident,

דְּהָהוּא גַּבְרָא דְּאֹגַר לֵיהּ חֲמָרָא לְחַבְרֵיהּ,

where a certain man rented a donkey to his friend,

The steps (30)

  1. QuestionDo we say 'why would I lie' for the captive woman?
  2. ChallengeComparing her to the case of the rented donkey
  3. Statementרבא believes the renter: 'Why would I lie?'
  4. Rejectionאביי: the rule does not work against witnesses
  5. ResolutionA sure fact versus a mere worry
  6. StatementThe משנה: Even a Slave or Maidservant Is Believed
  7. ChallengeContradiction: Her Own Maidservant Doesn't Count in the Divorce Case
  8. Resolutionרב פפי: The Rabbis Were Lenient for a Captive
  9. Resolutionרב פפא: Our משנה Means the Husband's Maidservant
  10. ChallengeChallenge to רב פפא: 'A Person Can't Testify About Himself'
  11. ResolutionHer Maidservant Counts as Herself
  12. ResolutionSilence versus speaking: when the maidservant is believed
  13. ChallengeBut maybe she will just lie
  14. ResolutionShe will not do two wrongs
  15. ProofA man claims to be a long-lost brother
  16. Statementרב חסדא says the brother may really not recognize him
  17. Statementרב חסדא makes the strong man bring witnesses
  18. Challengeמרי protests: the claimant should bring proof
  19. ResolutionThis is how violent men are judged
  20. ChallengeBut his witnesses will just lie
  21. ConclusionWitnesses will not do two wrongs
  22. QuestionIs the maidservant argument the same as an argument between two ברייתות?
  23. Questionרב פפי and רב אשי depend on the ברייתות, but what about רב פפא?
  24. Resolutionרב פפא explains the lenient ברייתא as casual speech
  25. ProofA son's casual remarks let his mother marry a כהן
  26. StatementA husband swears his wife never left his side
  27. RejectionThe Sages reject his testimony
  28. StatementHow he kept his wife without being alone with her
  29. Questionאביי asks if a divorcée can be housed the same way
  30. ProofA ברייתא about a divorcée living near her ex-husband