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Kesubos 58b

כתובות נ״ח ע״ב

Ketubot 58b

Learn Kesubos 58b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

Two reasons for the same delay in eating תרומה, and a wife's earnings (מעשה ידיה) in exchange for her support (מזונות)

Overview

The amud opens by finishing an earlier discussion about when an engaged woman may eat תרומה. According to רב שמואל בר יהודה, both rulings worry about a hidden defect (סימפון). They differ only on whether a check done by the groom's female relatives (בדיקת חוץ) counts. A new משנה then teaches that a husband who consecrates his wife's earnings cannot stop her from working and supporting herself. רבי מאיר and רבי יוחנן הסנדלר disagree about the extra she earns. רב rules that a wife may refuse support and keep her earnings, because support is the main part of the arrangement. The גמרא defends this ruling against a ברייתא, and then shows that the משנה cannot prove it. ריש לקיש disagrees with רב: he explains רבי מאיר by saying the husband can force his wife to work, so it is as if he consecrated her hands. Finally, רב and שמואל argue with רב אדא בר אהבה about when the extra becomes holy. רב פפא narrows their dispute to a husband who gives food but no spending money, and the explanation continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

אֶלָּא לְרַב שְׁמוּאֵל בַּר יְהוּדָה,

But according to Rav Shmuel bar Yehuda,

קַמַּיְיתָא מִשּׁוּם סִימְפּוֹן

the first ruling is because of a hidden defect

וּבָתְרָיְיתָא מִשּׁוּם סִימְפּוֹן,

and the later ruling is also because of a hidden defect,

מַאי בֵּינַיְיהוּ?

what is the difference between them?

The steps (20)

  1. QuestionIf both rulings share one reason, what is the difference between them?
  2. ResponseThey disagree about whether a check by his female relatives counts
  3. StatementThe new משנה: a husband who consecrates his wife's earnings
  4. StatementA wife may give up support and keep her own earnings
  5. ChallengeA teaching that seems to make earnings the main part of the deal
  6. ResolutionReverse the wording of the teaching
  7. ProofA possible proof from the husband who makes her earnings הקדש
  8. RejectionThe case may be a wife who gets no support
  9. ChallengeWhy teach something so obvious?
  10. ResolutionThe real new point is the argument about the extra earnings
  11. Statementריש לקיש's reason for רבי מאיר's ruling
  12. ChallengeBut he never said those words
  13. ResolutionA person does not speak for nothing
  14. ChallengeA ברייתא shows רבי מאיר allows things not yet in the world
  15. ResolutionThe ברייתא proves it, but our משנה does not
  16. QuestionWhen does the extra become holy?
  17. ResponseAfter her death or during her life
  18. ChallengeIf he gives her food and spending money, why wait?
  19. ChallengeIf he gives her nothing, why holy during her life?
  20. ResolutionThe middle case: food but no spending money