Gemara Clarity

Kiddushin 12a

קידושין י״ב ע״א

Learn Kiddushin 12a step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Kiddushin 12a in Gemara Clarity

Topic

The minimum value for קידושין: בית שמאי's דינר, the fixed value of a פרוטה, and שמואל's concern about items worth less

Overview

The גמרא finishes proving that an אמה העבריה must always be able to deduct from her price, so she can never be sold for one פרוטה. בית שמאי learn from this that a woman cannot be betrothed with a פרוטה, and the minimum is set at a דינר. רבא gives a different reason: Jewish women should not be treated like ownerless property. Then the גמרא turns to בית הלל's פרוטה. רב יוסף thinks it means any small amount, but אביי shows it has a fixed value. רב דימי reports one-eighth of an איסר and רבין reports one-sixth. רב דימי explains that both are right, because the copper איסר changed in price while the פרוטה stayed fixed against silver. Finally, שמואל rules that betrothal with a cheap date creates a doubtful קידושין, and the גמרא compares this with real cases of a bundle of rags and a blue stone.

Opening lines

לָא סָלְקָא דַּעְתָּךְ –

This cannot enter your mind:

דּוּמְיָא דְּיִיעוּד,

it is similar to designation.

מַה יִיעוּד,

Just as with designation,

אַף עַל גַּב דְּאִי בָּעֵי מְיַיעֵד

even though if he wants, he designates her,

The steps (30)

  1. ResolutionDeduction works like designation: a sale where it is impossible is no sale
  2. Statementבית שמאי learn קידושין from אמה העבריה
  3. ChallengeWhy a whole דינר and not a smaller amount?
  4. ResolutionOnce a פרוטה is ruled out, the amount is set at a דינר
  5. Statementרבא: Jewish women should not be treated like ownerless property
  6. StatementBack to the משנה: בית הלל say a פרוטה
  7. Statementרב יוסף thinks a פרוטה is any small amount
  8. Challengeאביי: the משנה itself gives a fixed value
  9. RejectionLater sages also measured the פרוטה
  10. Challengeרב יוסף: the numbers in a ברייתא don't fit
  11. ResolutionAn old man fixes the wording: close to two thousand
  12. ChallengeBut 1,536 is not close to two thousand
  13. ResolutionPast the halfway point counts as close
  14. StatementBack to the reports of רב דימי and רבין
  15. Questionאביי asks: is this an argument between תנאים?
  16. StatementThe תנא קמא's coin chart: a פרוטה is one-eighth of an איסר
  17. Statementרבן שמעון בן גמליאל's chart: a פרוטה is one-sixth of an איסר
  18. Questionאביי completes his question: does each אמורא follow a different תנא?
  19. Responseרב דימי: both follow the תנא קמא; the איסר's price changed
  20. Statementשמואל: betrothal with one date is valid out of concern
  21. ChallengeThe משנה says a פרוטה is needed
  22. ResolutionCertain קידושין versus doubtful קידושין
  23. StatementA man betroths with a bundle of rags
  24. ChallengeWhat about שמואל's worry?
  25. ResolutionAgain: certain versus doubtful
  26. StatementA man betroths with a blue stone
  27. ChallengeSame challenge from שמואל
  28. Resolutionרב חסדא disagrees with שמואל
  29. ChallengeThe mother says the stone was worth a פרוטה then
  30. ResolutionHer word cannot forbid the woman to a later man