Kiddushin 12b

קידושין י״ב ע״ב

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Topic

Far-away witnesses and doubtful קידושין, רב's list of offenses that earn מלקות, and רבא's rule about silence after the money is given

Overview

This amud finishes the story of a woman betrothed with an item that was not worth a פרוטה where the קידושין happened, though it may have been worth a פרוטה in אידית. רב חסדא rules that she is not מקודשת. He says witnesses who are far away do not count, and he brings support from רבי חייא's wife יהודית and from רבי חנינא's ruling about a שבויה. אביי ורבא disagree, and in practice the רבנן avoided marrying into that woman's family because they held like אביי ורבא. Next comes a man who betrothed with a myrtle branch in the marketplace. רב יוסף ruled that he gets מלקות like רב and that a גט is needed like שמואל. This leads to רב's list of improper behaviors he punished, and to the view of the Sages of נהרדעא that רב flogged only for קידושין through ביאה. Finally, רבא rules that a woman's silence after the money is already given means nothing. He proves this from a ברייתא about a coin given as a deposit, and the גמרא begins to ask what 'she wanted' means there, a discussion that continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (20)

1. ProofThe story of יהודית, wife of רבי חייא
2. ChallengeThe רבנן point to witnesses in אידית
3. ResolutionThe witnesses are not here now
4. ProofSupport from רבי חנינא: far-away witnesses
5. Rejectionאביי ורבא disagree: a captive woman is a more lenient case
6. ConclusionThe rabbis kept away from that family, following אביי ורבא
7. QuestionA man betrothed with a myrtle branch in the marketplace
8. Responseרב יוסף: flog him like רב, require a גט like שמואל
9. Statementרב flogged men for improper ways of betrothing
10. StatementMore things רב flogged for: cancelling a גט, disrespecting the rabbis
11. StatementA son-in-law who lives in his father-in-law's house
12. ChallengeWhy was a son-in-law who only passed by flogged?
13. ResolutionThat case already had rumors
14. Statementנהרדעא: רב flogged only for ביאה without a שידוך
15. StatementAnother version: even with a שידוך
16. StatementThe myrtle mat with four זוזי inside
17. Conclusionרבא: silence after the money is given means nothing
18. Proofרבא's proof: the deposit ברייתא
19. QuestionWhat do 'she wanted' and 'she did not want' mean?
20. ChallengeTesting the reading that 'wanted' means saying yes