Menachos 13b

מנחות י״ג ע״ב

Menachot 13b

Learn Menachos 13b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

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Topic

רבי יוסי and the חכמים on פיגול spreading between מתירין and between parts, plus רבי ינאי's rule on a זר gathering the לבונה

Overview

The amud opens by finishing an earlier point: רבי יוסי agrees a מנחה is פיגול when the intent was to burn the קומץ tomorrow. If the intent was to burn the לבונה tomorrow, he says it is only פסול. ריש לקיש explains that in his view one מתיר cannot make another מתיר פיגול, even two cups of the same לבונה. The גמרא shows that רבי יוסי's words 'the לבונה is not from the מנחה' mean the קומץ does not hold back the לבונה. The רבנן answer that two items fixed in one כלי count as one. Next, רבי ינאי rules that a זר who gathers the לבונה makes the מנחה פסול, because gathering counts as הולכה. רב מרי tries to prove this from the משנה about placing the קומץ in a כלי, but the גמרא rejects the proof: placing in a כלי simply matches קבלה. A new משנה brings רבי יוסי and the חכמים arguing about a פיגול thought on only one of two loaves or arrangements. רב הונא extends רבי יוסי's view to the two thighs of one animal, and רב נחמן begins a challenge from a ברייתא that continues on the next amud.

Opening lines

The steps (28)

1. ConclusionThe משנה teaches that רבי יוסי agrees in this case
2. Statementמשנה: intent to burn the frankincense tomorrow
3. Statementריש לקיש: one permitting part does not make another into פיגול
4. StatementThe same rule for the two bowls of frankincense of the showbread
5. QuestionWhy add the case of the showbread?
6. ResponseTwo bowls of the same kind still don't make each other פיגול
7. ChallengeThe end of the משנה seems to say לבונה is a different kind
8. Resolution'Not part of the מנחה' means the קומץ does not hold back the לבונה
9. ResponseThe רבנן: things fixed in one כלי count as one
10. StatementGathering the לבונה by a non-כהן makes the מנחה פסול
11. QuestionWhy is gathering by a non-כהן פסול?
12. ResponseGathering counts as part of הולכה
13. Proofרב מרי brings support from the משנה's list of מנחה services
14. QuestionWhich animal service does 'placing in a vessel' match?
15. RejectionPlacing in a vessel is not truly like receiving blood
16. ResponseA step that cannot be skipped is an important service
17. ProofSo too, gathering the לבונה counts as הולכה
18. RejectionNo, placing in a vessel really is like collecting blood
19. ResolutionBoth are about the vessel making it holy
20. StatementNew משנה: a פיגול thought about only one loaf or one arrangement, and רבי יוסי's view
21. Statementחכמים: both become פיגול
22. Statementרב הונא: in רבי יוסי's view, פיגול on the right thigh does not spread to the left
23. QuestionWhat is the reason? Logic or a verse
24. ResponseThe logical reason: a thought is no stronger than real impurity
25. ResponseThe verse reason: 'of it' and not from the other part
26. Challengeרב נחמן quotes a ברייתא: both loaves together for a כזית
27. QuestionWhose view is the ברייתא? It must be רבי יוסי
28. ChallengeIf the two thighs are one body, mixed intent about the loaves can combine