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Menachos 18b

מנחות י״ח ע״ב

Menachot 18b

Learn Menachos 18b step by step: Aramaic beside English, every question, answer and proof colour-coded.

Open Menachos 18b in Gemara Clarity

Topic

How to read 'לא יצק' and 'פתים מרובות' in the משנה, and whether a זר may pour the oil: the רבנן versus רבי שמעון

Overview

The גמרא tries to prove from an earlier discussion about mixing (בלילה) that 'לא יצק' in our משנה means the oil was not poured at all. That proof is pushed away: 'לא יצק' can still mean a זר poured it. Next the גמרא explains the משנה's line about breaking a מנחה into 'פתים מרובות'. It gives two answers: either the pieces were too many and too small, or they were truly large and count as neither loaves nor proper pieces. Then the גמרא asks whether our משנה, which lets a זר pour, goes against רבי שמעון. He lists pouring among the jobs that belong to the כהנים. רב נחמן offers two ways to make them agree, but רבא knocks down both. So the גמרא concludes that our משנה does not follow רבי שמעון. It then shows the רבנן's source: the כהן's job begins only at קמיצה. רבי שמעון's reply begins at the end of the amud and continues on the next one.

Opening lines

וְהָתְנַן: שִׁשִּׁים נִבְלָלִין,

But didn't we learn: sixty can be mixed,

שִׁשִּׁים וְאֶחָד אֵין נִבְלָלִין,

sixty-one cannot be mixed,

וְהָוֵינַן בָּהּ:

and we discussed it:

כִּי אֵינָם נִבְלָלִין מַאי הָוֵי?

if they cannot be mixed, what of it?

The steps (19)

  1. ChallengeAn earlier discussion about mixing sixty-one tenths
  2. Challengeרבי זירא: Ability to mix is required, not actual mixing
  3. RejectionEach phrase can be read on its own terms
  4. StatementThe משנה: broken into 'many pieces', still fit
  5. ChallengeWhy is this line needed?
  6. Resolution'Many pieces' means too many small pieces
  7. ResolutionA second answer: the pieces really were too large
  8. ChallengeDoes our משנה go against רבי שמעון?
  9. QuestionThe ברייתא asks how we include the 15 עבודות
  10. ResponseThe ברייתא learns the 15 services from 'בני אהרן'
  11. Resolutionמנחת כהנים versus מנחת ישראל
  12. Challengeרבא: the priests' pouring is learned from the Israelite's
  13. ResolutionAnother version: offerings with a handful removed versus without
  14. Challengeרבא rejects the split between מנחות with and without קמיצה
  15. ConclusionOur משנה does not follow רבי שמעון
  16. QuestionWhat is the source for the רבנן?
  17. ResponseThe כהן's job starts only at קמיצה
  18. QuestionHow does רבי שמעון read this פסוק?
  19. Responseרבי שמעון's answer begins with "בני אהרן"